The Mit Jeut See Tai Glorification Thread

[Ken Cheng]

Widely reviled as the cruelest character in HSDS, Mit Jeut See Tai was, perhaps, not as uniformly terrible as most people believe. Although she was definitely not a nice person, I felt she was less hypocritical and less despicable than certain others who appeared in the same story.

[PJ]

For me, she was less irritating than Guo Fu. That should be her ultimate praise.

[athlee]

She had more personality than XLN, thin praise I know, but I gotta start somewhere.

[Ken Cheng]

She also yelled at Ding Mun Gwun often, which was a plus.

She also never lost sight of the Big Prize, which was expelling the Mongol overlords from China. I think many of the other wulin sect leaders had lost sight of the Big Prize.

[PJ]

She also yelled at Ding Mun Gwun often, which was a plus.

I do not remember she did so in the novel.

[Ghaleon]

For me, she was less irritating than Guo Fu. That should be her ultimate praise.

But everybody's less irritating than Guo Fu

[Ken Cheng]

But everybody's less irritating than Guo Fu

Well, not *everybody*.

I can think of four or five right off the bat...most of whom share a novel with her, in fact.

[Ghaleon]

Well, not *everybody*.

I can think of four or five right off the bat...most of whom share a novel with her, in fact.

Excuse me, all the villainous character i meant

[owbjhx]

Widely reviled as the cruelest character in HSDS, Mit Jeut See Tai was, perhaps, not as uniformly terrible as most people believe. Although she was definitely not a nice person, I felt she was less hypocritical and less despicable than certain others who appeared in the same story.

The "old b*tch nun" Miejue is by no means portrayed entirely negatively by Jinyong. Her main problem is that she thinks she's fighting some sort of holy war. The well-deserved public humiliation that precedes her stupid suicide goes some way towards softening her b*tchtastic image. (Also, in a recent TV adaptation Miejue was played by an actress who happened to look even more attractive than the one who played Zhou Zhiruo, which always helps. Shallow, I know.)

Ultimately, though, this is a character who ordered the execution of an innocent 8-year-old girl. That is very difficult to make excuses for.

[Guo Xiang]

The "old b*tch nun" Miejue is by no means portrayed entirely negatively by Jinyong. Her main problem is that she thinks she's fighting some sort of holy war. The well-deserved public humiliation that precedes her stupid suicide goes some way towards softening her b*tchtastic image. (Also, in a recent TV adaptation Miejue was played by an actress who happened to look even more attractive than the one who played Zhou Zhiruo, which always helps. Shallow, I know.)

Ultimately, though, this is a character who ordered the execution of an innocent 8-year-old girl. That is very difficult to make excuses for.

Well, Miejue sees Yang Buhui as the spawn of the evil sect which doesn't make her any less innocent in the nun's eyes.

[owbjhx]

Well, Miejue sees Yang Buhui as the spawn of the evil sect which doesn't make her any less innocent in the nun's eyes.

That is true. But does understanding the reason why someone would want to murder an innocent 8-year-old girl make it any less despicable?

One of the E'Mei disciples at the scene even tried to help Buhui escape, which suggests that seeing Buhui as innocent (which she was) was a perfectly reasonable viewpoint even among Miejue's disciples at the time. That, if anything, makes Miejue's viewpoint even more despicable.

If you can ignore this, Miejue in general is no more dislikeable than the average deranged Yitian-sword-waving bloodthirsty nun.

[Extremer88]

Widely reviled as the cruelest character in HSDS, Mit Jeut See Tai was, perhaps, not as uniformly terrible as most people believe.

I personally felt that Cheng Kun is more awful than her.

[Doc Kwok]

She also never lost sight of the Big Prize, which was expelling the Mongol overlords from China. I think many of the other wulin sect leaders had lost sight of the Big Prize.

The trouble is that Miejue, by her actions rather than words, seemed to place her personal vendetta against the Ming cult and the glorification of her sect by any means first, and the country last. We never see or hear of her (or any of Ermei for that matter) so much as lift a finger against the Mongol occupation. By contrast, at least the members of the Wudang sect were ordered to actively destroy any rampaging Mongolian soldiers they encountered.

Even when discussing the secret of the two weapons, Miejue's orders regarding the war manual were to give it to a loyal patriot and make him take a vow to expel the invaders - just a single, brief sentence, whereas she went on and on and on about the martial arts and assassinating ZWJ via seduction. And if you think about it, doesn't that order basically amount to 'get someone else to do the dirty work for you' anyway? At least help the guy out, ala Huang Rong!

[Guo Xiang]

That is true. But does understanding the reason why someone would want to murder an innocent 8-year-old girl make it any less despicable?

One of the E'Mei disciples at the scene even tried to help Buhui escape, which suggests that seeing Buhui as innocent (which she was) was a perfectly reasonable viewpoint even among Miejue's disciples at the time. That, if anything, makes Miejue's viewpoint even more despicable.

If you can ignore this, Miejue in general is no more dislikeable than the average deranged Yitian-sword-waving bloodthirsty nun.

For normal folks like us, yeah, you are right that it's despicable. But if you are going to see from Miejue's POV, then it's not. In fact, it's perfectly fine to her. She thinks in the line of bad people don't deserve mercy no matter what.

And Yang Buhui is one of those bad people (to her). Miejue's type of mindset - A demon is still a demon, and it's probably much better to get rid of the demon while it's young. It will be a much bigger trouble once it's fully-grown.

[JoeLee]

For normal folks like us, yeah, you are right that it's despicable. But if you are going to see from Miejue's POV, then it's not. In fact, it's perfectly fine to her. She thinks in the line of bad people don't deserve mercy no matter what.

But MJST was wrong in doing so, and her actions seem to be more motivated by personal vendetta than misguided righteousness. That's why i hate her oh so very very much....

But ya, she was bad but not much worse than the other baddies. Although, her pig headed stubbornness was very GF like and that does not win her any popularity points.

[owbjhx]

For normal folks like us, yeah, you are right that it's despicable. But if you are going to see from Miejue's POV, then it's not. In fact, it's perfectly fine to her. She thinks in the line of bad people don't deserve mercy no matter what.

And Yang Buhui is one of those bad people (to her). Miejue's type of mindset - A demon is still a demon, and it's probably much better to get rid of the demon while it's young. It will be a much bigger trouble once it's fully-grown.

Sure, I don't disagree with your description of Miejue's perspective. As I mentioned earlier, her problem is that she thinks she's fighting a holy war. To her, certain groups of people are evil, and they deserve only extermination. That is pretty clear from the novel, and I've never disputed it.

But what point are you trying to make by bringing up Miejue's perspective? My argument is that I don't think it matters. Wanting to kill an innocent child is despicable. Pointing out why the would-be murderer - or, in fact, anyone else - might not think it's despicable is neither here nor there. Of course they have a different perspective. So what? Whatever their perspective is, it is not defensible to want to kill an innocent child.

[athlee]

Sure, I don't disagree with your description of Miejue's perspective. As I mentioned earlier, her problem is that she thinks she's fighting a holy war. To her, certain groups of people are evil, and they deserve only extermination. That is pretty clear from the novel, and I've never disputed it.

But what point are you trying to make by bringing up Miejue's perspective? My argument is that I don't think it matters. Wanting to kill an innocent child is despicable. Pointing out why the would-be murderer - or, in fact, anyone else - might not think it's despicable is neither here nor there. Of course they have a different perspective. So what? Whatever their perspective is, it is not defensible to want to kill an innocent child.

'Innocent' is the key word here. In her mind, the child wasn't innocent. Not only was she the spawn of evil, she was the source of her student's rebellion. She neither saw the girl as innocent or a child. All she saw was a demon, was the spawn of all that's evil, the source of her favourite student's rebellion. Even the name seems to be mocking her, 'Without Regrets'.

If the girl was name Kill Yang, and her mother was training her to kill Yang Xiao, preferably by having her hold a male doll with Yang Xiao's name on it and having her repeatedly stab it each time she had free time, Mie Juet would probably embrace the child and teach her personally.

[mawguy]

you, um, have a thing for "disagreeable" women, mr. cheng?

[Ken Cheng]

you, um, have a thing for "disagreeable" women, mr. cheng?

I wouldn't glorify Lam Chiu Ying at all.

[owbjhx]

'Innocent' is the key word here. In her mind, the child wasn't innocent. Not only was she the spawn of evil, she was the source of her student's rebellion. She neither saw the girl as innocent or a child. All she saw was a demon, was the spawn of all that's evil, the source of her favourite student's rebellion. Even the name seems to be mocking her, 'Without Regrets'.

Thanks for that, but once again: so what? If you decide to kill an *innocent* child, that is a despicable decision, irrespective of what you think. If you think the child is innocent, your decision is despicable and wrong. If you don't think the child is innocent, your decision is despicable and wrong. Why should anyone care what you think?

And with all due respect, you are repeating what Guo Xiang has already said. Both of you have presented (the same) observation without actually saying what point you are trying to make. This is how the "debate" has gone:

Me (#9):
Miejue ain't so bad. Don't like her ordering the murder of an innocent child, though. That was uncool.

Guo Xiang (#10):
Miejue didn't think she was innocent.

Me (#11):
Well ok...but does that make it any less uncool?

Guo Xiang (#14):
Miejue didn't think she was innocent.

Me (#16):
Er...and your point is...?

Athlee (#17):
Miejue didn't think she was innocent.

You've made your observation. I got it the first time, but thank you for repeating it twice. Now tell me what point you are trying to make with it, and we can turn this into a proper discussion...if you're at all interested. Are you defending Miejue or not?

If the girl was name Kill Yang, and her mother was training her to kill Yang Xiao, preferably by having her hold a male doll with Yang Xiao's name on it and having her repeatedly stab it each time she had free time, Mie Juet would probably embrace the child and teach her personally.

That's speculation. I think we should assess a character based on what information there is in the text, rather than your personal guess as to what they might have done in some imaginary situation. As far as guesses go, there is nothing in the text to suggest Buhui's name had a meaningful influence on Miejue's decision to have her killed. (In fact, given that Miejue didn't even know who the father was until shortly before she killed Ji Xiaofu, it's likely she didn't know Buhui's name at all.) And even if it did, once again: so what?