The Cheun Jen Sect Glorification Thread

[Ken Cheng]

'Nuff said.

Was there ever another wulin sect so grandly built up, and then so ingloriously torn down?

[Dirt]

The 2 sides of Wong Chongyang was, unfortunately, divided. Zhou Botong received his martial arts. The Quanzhen 7 received his Daoism. If the 8 people worked more closely together, Quanzhen would not have fallen so low.

[Trien Chieu]

I hate the sect and all those stinking taoists.

[Cesare]

I only know ROCH and QZ sect already in decline, but I'm totally a fan.
They strive for an ideal and turn out to be (for the greater part) unable to attain it, both as a group and in individual cases; they make a lot of mistakes and tend to end up paying for them, which makes the whole QZ crowd an incredibly endearing bunch of losers.
I'm also quite fond of Taoism - and of course - Chongyang palace is the home of my favorite ROCH character.
No need to elaborate further. QZ rocks and they should've drowned YG in a bucket of dishwater when he was still a little brat.

[athlee]

No need to elaborate further. QZ rocks and they should've drowned YG in a bucket of dishwater when he was still a little brat.

That's where you are wrong. It wasn't YG they should have drowned. It was YH. That way, there would have been no YG to irritate the masses.

[Cesare]

That's where you are wrong. It wasn't YG they should have drowned. It was YH. That way, there would have been no YG to irritate the masses.

YH=Yeung Hong?
Well, I'll decide whether I agree about that when I read LOCH.

[Doc Kwok]

Most of the QZ members have their hearts in the right place. The trouble is that they ultimately cannot back up their lofty ideals with their ability. It's like watching Superman come flying in to save the day... only to slip on a pebble while landing and breaking his nose .

Their tendency to rely on overwhelming numbers with a special formation on top of that also makes them look weak as individuals - and even then, they still rarely win outright!

[Ken Cheng]

Most of the QZ members have their hearts in the right place. The trouble is that they ultimately cannot back up their lofty ideals with their ability. It's like watching Superman come flying in to save the day... only to slip on a pebble while landing and breaking his nose .

Their tendency to rely on overwhelming numbers with a special formation on top of that also makes them look weak as individuals - and even then, they still rarely win outright!

Yau Chui Gei got the sect off to a rip-roaring start in LOCH with great performances against assorted Jin warriors and the Gong Nam 7 Freaks.

Unfortunately, it was all downhill from there.

[Dirt]

Quanzhen only looks bad relative to it's time. After Wang Chongyang died, the 7 Masters still had 4 or 6 other Greats/Great level folk to contend with. Wudang Clan had no Greats to deal with, all the Greats were Wudang Clan members.

Not to mention, Quanzhen had to contend with Genghis Khan himself and even possibly drawing him towards Daoism. The Yuan Dynasty was already in decline by the time of Zhang Wuji's Wudang Clan.

[Ken Cheng]

Not to mention, Quanzhen had to contend with Genghis Khan himself and even possibly drawing him towards Daoism.

Notably, during ROCH, Kublai Khan seemed even more worried about the threat posed to the Mongol forces by the Cheun Jen Sect than he was about the threat posed by Gwok Jing and his men at Seung Yeung.

[odbayarb2000]

Notably, during ROCH, Kublai Khan seemed even more worried about the threat posed to the Mongol forces by the Cheun Jen Sect than he was about the threat posed by Gwok Jing and his men at Seung Yeung.

How did you know this details without reading the novels? I'm impressed. Or the older TV series were that accurate?

[pannonian]

Notably, during ROCH, Kublai Khan seemed even more worried about the threat posed to the Mongol forces by the Cheun Jen Sect than he was about the threat posed by Gwok Jing and his men at Seung Yeung.

Xi'an, where Mt Zhongnan is
Xiangfan, the modern amalgamation of the twin towns of Xiangyang and Fancheng

As you can see, Xi'an is to the northwest of Xiangfan, so Quanzhen's base would have been inside Mongol-dominated territory. They might have acted as an annoying outpost while they prepared to assault Xiangyang, but a hostile Quanzhen would have been a dead man waiting should the Mongols ever turn their mind to it. Let's not forget his brother Hulegu had managed to intimidate the Hashashin into surrendering, so mountain forts garrisoned by renowned martial artists weren't impregnable to the Mongols.

[SkyWalker]

My only question is, when Wong Chongyang decided to create his own sect, why didn't he do it elsewhere? He created his sect right next to the Ancient Tomb and asked his disciples to watch out for them. What the hell?! If he went somewhere far far away from Ancient Tomb, then maybe YG & XLN wouldn't have caused their downfall.

[Ken Cheng]

How did you know this details without reading the novels? I'm impressed. Or the older TV series were that accurate?

What can I say? I'm just that good.

In ROCH '83, there was a scene that seemed to nail this situation down: shortly after Chow Bak Tung stole Kublai's flag, Kublai had a discussion with the Golden Wheel Monk about their problems with wulin. During this discussion, Kublai stressed to the Golden Wheel Monk that their priority (even above eliminating Gwok Jing at Seung Yeung) was to eliminate the Cheun Jen Sect first. Chung Yeung Temple was located within the borders of the Mongol Empire, and there were also Cheun Jen Sect temples scattered throughout the Sung territories as well. Kublai was keen to eliminate this threat before advancing farther south.

Xi'an, where Mt Zhongnan is
Xiangfan, the modern amalgamation of the twin towns of Xiangyang and Fancheng

As you can see, Xi'an is to the northwest of Xiangfan, so Quanzhen's base would have been inside Mongol-dominated territory. They might have acted as an annoying outpost while they prepared to assault Xiangyang, but a hostile Quanzhen would have been a dead man waiting should the Mongols ever turn their mind to it. Let's not forget his brother Hulegu had managed to intimidate the Hashashin into surrendering, so mountain forts garrisoned by renowned martial artists weren't impregnable to the Mongols.

Kublai was thinking about the costs if the Cheun Jen Sect wasn't dealt with promptly. In the long run, of course the Mongols would win...but without taking out the Cheun Jen Sect early in the game, the Mongols would face an uphill battle and get seriously mauled on their way into the Chinese heartland. Taking down the Cheun Jen Sect first was considered a key component for the Mongols invasion strategy. They didn't want to get embroiled in a guerilla war with the Cheun Jen Sect and its allies like the Jurchens did.

[Dirt]

My only question is, when Wong Chongyang decided to create his own sect, why didn't he do it elsewhere? He created his sect right next to the Ancient Tomb and asked his disciples to watch out for them. What the hell?! If he went somewhere far far away from Ancient Tomb, then maybe YG & XLN wouldn't have caused their downfall.

An antiquated sense of honor, perhaps? That he spurned her but also still loved her, maybe?

[shadow8899]

My only question is, when Wong Chongyang decided to create his own sect, why didn't he do it elsewhere? He created his sect right next to the Ancient Tomb and asked his disciples to watch out for them. What the hell?! If he went somewhere far far away from Ancient Tomb, then maybe YG & XLN wouldn't have caused their downfall.

He was too lazy to go find a new location.

[odbayarb2000]

My only question is, when Wong Chongyang decided to create his own sect, why didn't he do it elsewhere? He created his sect right next to the Ancient Tomb and asked his disciples to watch out for them. What the hell?! If he went somewhere far far away from Ancient Tomb, then maybe YG & XLN wouldn't have caused their downfall.

It was prerequisite of LCY. WCY should become religious man and accompany her in the Mount Zongnan for ten years.

[pannonian]

Kublai was thinking about the costs if the Cheun Jen Sect wasn't dealt with promptly. In the long run, of course the Mongols would win...but without taking out the Cheun Jen Sect early in the game, the Mongols would face an uphill battle and get seriously mauled on their way into the Chinese heartland. Taking down the Cheun Jen Sect first was considered a key component for the Mongols invasion strategy. They didn't want to get embroiled in a guerilla war with the Cheun Jen Sect and its allies like the Jurchens did.

Related to this, from HSDS chapter 1:

At this time, the entire northern territories of China were in hands of
the Mongolians, the ShaoLin monastery fell under Mongolian jurisdiction.
However, the Mongolians were busy deploying their troops so they had no
time to control any temples, monasteries. Everything in ShaoLin remained
the same.

[Ken Cheng]

Related to this, from HSDS chapter 1:

At this time, the entire northern territories of China were in hands of
the Mongolians, the ShaoLin monastery fell under Mongolian jurisdiction.
However, the Mongolians were busy deploying their troops so they had no
time to control any temples, monasteries. Everything in ShaoLin remained
the same.

Of course, that was *after* the Cheun Jen Sect had already been eliminated as a significant wulin power some nineteen years earlier, wasn't it? Shaolin was, at the time, just beginning to come out of a low ebb in its history (following the Fireworker Monk incident), so perhaps the Mongols felt they didn't need to take Shaolin seriously. Nineteen years earlier, however, Kublai apparently felt threatened enough by the Cheun Jen Sect that he had the Golden Wheel Monk lead an operation specifically to undermine and destroy the sect.

[Dirt]

Quan Zhen may have lost all influence in the Martial World. But they still had considerable influence in the lives of ordinary citizens.