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Thread: Odd/unusual pronunciation quirks of wuxia names in Cantonese wuxia adaptations

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    Default Odd/unusual pronunciation quirks of wuxia names in Cantonese wuxia adaptations

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Yan Teen Sing
    I've noticed this over the years, but his name is Yan Teen Jing in cantonese I believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    I've noticed this over the years, but his name is Yan Teen Jing in cantonese I believe.
    No, it's Yan Teen SING. "Sing" as in "sing lei" ("victory"), I believe.

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    It is 正, like when describing the orthodox clans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    It is 正, like when describing the orthodox clans.
    Every character in HSDS '86 pronounced it "Sing," so unless the scriptwriters really pooched that one and nobody on the cast complained...

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    Heh I don't know what to tell you. There's not much room for argument here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Every character in HSDS '86 pronounced it "Sing," so unless the scriptwriters really pooched that one and nobody on the cast complained...
    I've always heard it as 'Jing', as was intended (this was before I learnt to read Chinese, so I wasn't influenced in that regard). You might want to try watching the series again with that in mind - it's amazing how much one's preconceptions colour what one is hearing.

    On my own part, when I first watched ROCH '83, I heard 'Yeung Gor' as 'Yeung Gok' at first for some reason - it finally twigged when they discussed the meaning of the name. When I went back, I heard 'Yeung Gor' every single time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    I've always heard it as 'Jing', as was intended (this was before I learnt to read Chinese, so I wasn't influenced in that regard). You might want to try watching the series again with that in mind - it's amazing how much one's preconceptions colour what one is hearing.

    On my own part, when I first watched ROCH '83, I heard 'Yeung Gor' as 'Yeung Gok' at first for some reason - it finally twigged when they discussed the meaning of the name. When I went back, I heard 'Yeung Gor' every single time.
    A similar thing happened with the name "Yeun Nan Hung Lit" in LOCH '82. In the MAKING OF LOCH episode that preceded the series, cast, crew, and directors alike all referred to the character as "Wan Ngan (i.e. Wanyan) Hung Lit" in Cantonese, but when the scenes themselves were shot, all characters called that character "YEUN Ngan Hung Lit."

    I'm not sure why everybody pronounced that differently in real life from how they did when they were "in character."

    Also, for years, I heard Dr. Wu Ching Ngau as Wu Ching LAU. I actually *still* hear it as Wu Ching LAU despite knowing that it's Wu Ching NGAU.

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    It's Zheng 正, as tape said; Yin Tianzheng in pinyin, 天正 meaning 'as upright as heaven'.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 02-12-10 at 03:11 PM.
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    Could it be a dialectical difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
    Could it be a dialectical difference?
    I don't know, but Cantonese *is* a little weird sometimes. Certain things are spoken, but never written, and vice-versa. Hong Kong Cantonese, especially, can be *very* idiosyncratic at times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    A similar thing happened with the name "Yeun Nan Hung Lit" in LOCH '82. In the MAKING OF LOCH episode that preceded the series, cast, crew, and directors alike all referred to the character as "Wan Ngan (i.e. Wanyan) Hung Lit" in Cantonese, but when the scenes themselves were shot, all characters called that character "YEUN Ngan Hung Lit."

    I'm not sure why everybody pronounced that differently in real life from how they did when they were "in character."
    I remember that too! The character 完 is pronounced 'wan' in Mandarin, but 'yuen' in Cantonese (without any alternative pronunciations, as far as I know). Maybe someone educated using Mandarin (the director Siu Sang perhaps?) used that pronunciation and everyone latched onto it unconsciously before someone corrected them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Also, for years, I heard Dr. Wu Ching Ngau as Wu Ching LAU. I actually *still* hear it as Wu Ching LAU despite knowing that it's Wu Ching NGAU.
    I think part of it is because people tend to slur the components of given names together while speaking quickly, making it hard to distinguish the individual characters if you didn't know what they were supposed to be in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    I remember that too! The character 完 is pronounced 'wan' in Mandarin, but 'yuen' in Cantonese (without any alternative pronunciations, as far as I know). Maybe someone educated using Mandarin (the director Siu Sang perhaps?) used that pronunciation and everyone latched onto it unconsciously before someone corrected them?
    That's very possible. Many of TVB's older generation of directors/writers were born and grew up in China, and either Mandarin or other non-Cantonese dialects were their first languages.

    Minor correction: Wong Teen Lam, not Siu Sang, directed LOCH '82. Siu Sang directed ROCH '83.

    I think part of it is because people tend to slur the components of given names together while speaking quickly, making it hard to distinguish the individual characters if you didn't know what they were supposed to be in the first place.
    I think this is probably the case here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I don't know, but Cantonese *is* a little weird sometimes. Certain things are spoken, but never written, and vice-versa. Hong Kong Cantonese, especially, can be *very* idiosyncratic at times.
    Pretty much everything in Cantonese can be written down, but this is rarely done in formal writing. There are plenty of books written in colloquial Cantonese sold in Hong Kong, but I find these downright painful to read since I do a double-take every so often because characters used in Mandarin are often repurposed for their pronunciation rather than the meaning, or new characters are introduced.

    e.g.

    • 點解 (deem gai) means 'why' in Cantonese but is pretty meaningless in Mandarin - it would read like 'point explain'. In Mandarin, '為甚麼' (literally 'for what') would be used instead.
    • 乜 (mut) is used for 'what' (什麼)
    • 唔 (ng) is used for 'not' (不)
    • 冇 (mo) is used for 'not have' (沒有)

    and so on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Minor correction: Wong Teen Lam, not Siu Sang, directed LOCH '82. Siu Sang directed ROCH '83.
    My bad . Siu Sang made so many of the great Wuxia series of the 80s that I kind of assumed that he was the director!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    My bad . Siu Sang made so many of the great Wuxia series of the 80s that I kind of assumed that he was the director!
    Wong Teen Lam and Siu Sang basically split the glories of 1980s TVB Jin Yong adaptation between them. Wong Teen Lam helmed LOCH and HSDS, and Siu Sang helmed ROCH. I'd have to check the records to remember clearly who got DGSD, DOMD, SPW (although whoever did that one would probably disown it), FFoSM, etc.

    Their directorial styles were not so different (probably because TVB demanded that they fit a more-or-less homogeneous "house" style), but Siu Sang was a bit better at doing slightly surreal scenes whereas Wong Teen Lam tended to be more straightforward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    On my own part, when I first watched ROCH '83, I heard 'Yeung Gor' as 'Yeung Gok' at first for some reason - it finally twigged when they discussed the meaning of the name. When I went back, I heard 'Yeung Gor' every single time.
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    HK cantonese and guangdong cantonese is quite different. slightly different pronounciations and a world of difference for slang & colloquialisms.

    i've heard my parents complain too many times about the "lazy" and "incorrect" pronounciations by the HK bunch. for example, beef with flat noodles should be pronounced "ngau yuk chow ngah choy", but so many HKers say "au yuk chow ah choy". it seems to be getting worse because there's a lot of incorporation of mandarin pronounciations that's skewing the original canto.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mawguy View Post
    HK cantonese and guangdong cantonese is quite different. slightly different pronounciations and a world of difference for slang & colloquialisms.

    i've heard my parents complain too many times about the "lazy" and "incorrect" pronounciations by the HK bunch. for example, beef with flat noodles should be pronounced "ngau yuk chow ngah choy", but so many HKers say "au yuk chow ah choy". it seems to be getting worse because there's a lot of incorporation of mandarin pronounciations that's skewing the original canto.
    I've noticed that too. When I visit my cousins in HK, I often get some ribbing about my accent (I speak in the Hakka dialect to my family, so I sometimes get tongue-tied when speaking Cantonese due to lack of practice), so I often point out inaccuracies in their speech in return. Somewhat worryingly, they seem completely unaware of it, even when it is directly pointed out to them...

    The main problem seems to be dropping 'ng' sounds, or confusing 'n' versus 'l' sounds. e.g. 'ngor' (我 - I, me) becomes 'oor', 'nei' (你 - you) becomes 'lei' (李). Occasionally, it happens in reverse - 'oi' (愛 - love) pronounced like 'ngoi' (外 - outside) is pretty much universal now, even on TV. It can become tiring when they start saying 'oor' this, 'oor' that, like speaking in a lazy drawl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    The main problem seems to be dropping 'ng' sounds, or confusing 'n' versus 'l' sounds. e.g. 'ngor' (我 - I, me) becomes 'oor', 'nei' (你 - you) becomes 'lei' (李). Occasionally, it happens in reverse - 'oi' (愛 - love) pronounced like 'ngoi' (外 - outside) is pretty much universal now, even on TV. It can become tiring when they start saying 'oor' this, 'oor' that, like speaking in a lazy drawl.
    "Lazy" tones - laan yum. But I've always pronounced "love" as "ngoi", and I'm not a lazy-toner.

    There is no alternative Cantonese pronunciation of 正 that can sound like "sing":
    http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexi...h.php?q=%A5%BF

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