Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Do martial arts students usually duplicate their teacher's arts, or change it?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    24,367

    Default Do martial arts students usually duplicate their teacher's arts, or change it?

    In wuxia stories, what is more common: does a student usually duplicate his/her teacher's martial arts completely, or does the student necessarily change the martial art somewhat...if only because he/she is a different person from the teacher and will inject his/her unique, subjective experiences to the learning of the martial art?

  2. #2
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    绿柳山庄
    Posts
    2,707

    Default

    I'd say if students learn the complete same set of martial arts as their masters, there will be little chance of change. However, this doesn't happen all that often and we see synergy of martial arts such as from GJ, ZWJ, YG etc.

  3. #3
    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    currently in malaysia
    Posts
    1,772

    Default

    if the student is capable enough to master the whole skill, likely the student will put his own style into it, true you need to be a genius to alter a skill. most skills are improved, one move in each generation. each person improving a move slightly and passing it on, sometimes a gifted student may create a new move.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

  4. #4
    Senior Member mawguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    470

    Default

    majority of the students copy their master's skills, and most are but pale imitators. most masters are unwilling to teach everything because they always want to be the master. very few students are ingenious enough to not only perfect what they've learned but improve upon it or even create something new.

    why do you think schools of MAs continue to exist? if most students were able to integrate or create, there would either be too many styles or no styles at all, just one big massive conglomeration.
    nostalgic for wuxiasociety? http://wuxiasociety.freeforums.net/

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1

    Default they usually have more than one teachers

    if the character is important enough, he/she will usually have more than 1 teacher.

  6. #6
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    24,367

    Default

    This leads back to an issue that I had brought up once before, but never got a response upon: why is it that some students end up with such radically different martial arts from those practiced by their teachers? For example, the Golden Wheel Monk was all about Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung and those metallic wheels, but Dat Yee Ba and Fok Do's martial arts were nothing like his.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Giang Ho, Canada
    Posts
    4,876

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    This leads back to an issue that I had brought up once before, but never got a response upon: why is it that some students end up with such radically different martial arts from those practiced by their teachers? For example, the Golden Wheel Monk was all about Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung and those metallic wheels, but Dat Yee Ba and Fok Do's martial arts were nothing like his.
    Golden Wheel Monk is an extremely selfish individual so he would never teach his students his best martial skill unless he is about to die. He will never teach Dat Yee Ba and Fok Do his LJBYG nor his two metallic wheels. He wanted to be the best fighter in the Mongolian empire.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,580

    Default

    I'd say the wheels are probably a higher level of martial art than either two could handle.

    He gave the more intelligent and gentlemanly Huo Du the fan, and the big brute Daerba a huge stick -- it suited their personality very well. It just goes to show that GWM is more than meets the eye, and he knows softer fan techniques as well as brute strength smashing rods.


    I personally don't think there's too much variation in a student and master's martial arts (if they chose to master the same things) except for proficiency in it. Usually one would more likely pick a martial art that fits their style best and specialize in it, such as the Wudang heroes generally having the same martial arts but some are better at fist, sword, palm, etc.

  9. #9
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    绿柳山庄
    Posts
    2,707

    Default

    I also think that the wheels and Longxiang Boruo Gong are too hard for Huo Du and Daerba. This is why GWM was so happy to find Guo Xiang as he found her talented.

  10. #10
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    24,367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post

    He gave the more intelligent and gentlemanly Huo Du the fan.
    I'm just having a hard time picturing the Golden Wheel Monk using a paper fan as his weapon.

    The same goes for West Poison Au Yeung Fung and Au Yeung Hak. It's already known that Au Yeung Fung didn't teach his nephew/son the Ha Mo Gung because the senior Au Yeung thought it would be too dangerous for the relatively inexperienced Hak to learn, but again, it's hard to imagine Au Yeung Fung using a paper fan as his weapon of choice (as Au Yeung Hak did).

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    This leads back to an issue that I had brought up once before, but never got a response upon: why is it that some students end up with such radically different martial arts from those practiced by their teachers? For example, the Golden Wheel Monk was all about Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung and those metallic wheels, but Dat Yee Ba and Fok Do's martial arts were nothing like his.
    From Chapter 37 - Gratitudes And Grudges Over Three Generations:

    Suddenly Da’erba shouted and threw his 50-jin rod towards
    Hou Du and it flew swiftly and fiercely. Hou Du was shocked as he has
    never seen Da’erba use such a move before. He thought, “He has not won
    after so long, has he gone crazy?” and quickly jumped aside. Da’erba
    rushed up and hit the rod with his palms and it changed directions,
    following closely behind Hou Du. Hou Du was greatly surprised, then he
    realized that Da’erba had followed their master for over 10years and
    must have learned some advanced martial arts. This rod move was derived
    from Fawang’s Five-Wheel techniques and when Hou Du saw the ferocity of
    the rod coming towards him and knew he could not take the blow. He slid
    away, causing the rod to miss his head by two inches.

    Da'erba must have learned some darn good qinggong to be able to catch up with that staff after throwing it. Either that, or Jinyong is sloppy again in his fight visualisation.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Kuala Lumpur
    Posts
    2,786

    Default

    GWM probably felt that Huo Du couldn't be trusted, and he also knew that Daerba's potential was limited. He would have given everything to Guo Xiang had she but accepted. The ROCH 05 version even goes so far as to have him be willing to abandon the Mongol invasion of China to be her teacher.

    OYF taught OYK at least one move, but specified that he not use it. He might have taught him a few other tricks, but allowed him to develop his own thing.. or hired some other teacher for him.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    GWM probably felt that Huo Du couldn't be trusted, and he also knew that Daerba's potential was limited. He would have given everything to Guo Xiang had she but accepted. The ROCH 05 version even goes so far as to have him be willing to abandon the Mongol invasion of China to be her teacher.

    OYF taught OYK at least one move, but specified that he not use it. He might have taught him a few other tricks, but allowed him to develop his own thing.. or hired some other teacher for him.
    I got the impression that most of OYK's training was from OYF personally, but perhaps he wasn't around all the time so OYK was left to practice on his own and didn't develop too quickly. I don't think he had any other master.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Dirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1,401

    Default

    OYF was, at one point, going to lock up OYK for 5 years and not let him come out at all until he improved vastly. OYK had other plans. Should have listened to his uncle/father.

  15. #15
    Senior Member endo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    SeaTown
    Posts
    215

    Default

    Yang Guo changed one of SLL's skills.

    She can string a rope and sleep on it. Yang Guo changed it to an iron chain

    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://208.106.181.133/_media/imgs/articles/a336_c9.jpg')
    "my only fear of death is reincarnation...back into this life of strife" - 2pac

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-23-17, 01:23 AM
  2. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-23-12, 04:24 PM
  3. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-20-09, 04:02 PM
  4. How Cheung 3 Fung passed martial arts on to his students
    By Ken Cheng in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-26-06, 02:50 AM
  5. Two Freaks vs. two 1 Deng students (non-martial arts)
    By Ken Cheng in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-11-04, 11:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •