View Poll Results: Fastest?

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  • Jiumozhi

    0 0%
  • Xiao Feng

    5 27.78%
  • Yideng

    0 0%
  • Huang Yaoshi

    0 0%
  • Zhou Botong

    2 11.11%
  • Qiu Qianren

    5 27.78%
  • Guo Jing

    1 5.56%
  • Zhang Wuji

    0 0%
  • Zhang Sanfeng

    0 0%
  • ANOTHER

    5 27.78%
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Thread: Who is the fastest Great

  1. #1
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Default Who is the fastest Great

    OK, none of the DGSD/Trilogy/SPW Greats relies on Super Sonic Speed (S^3) to win a fight, but many of them have had moments resembling S^3. Which one would you consider the fastest?

    By the way, 'fast' in this case means short-distance sprints and attacks. Long-distance sprints boil down to internal energy, so there's no need to compare that.

    There are instances when Zhang Sanfeng, Zhang Wuji, Xiao Feng, Guo Jing, Yideng, Huang Yaoshi, etc have all demonstrated S^3-like speed. If I have time, I'll post those moments here. Please feel free to beat me to the punch if you find it sooner. The world deserves to know about these amazing moments of S^3
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  2. #2
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    By "Great", I mean people at the following level: DGSD @ Xiao Feng or below; Trilogy @ Great-level; SPW @ Fangzheng or below.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  3. #3
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    Qiu Qianren was famously fast, but here's an example of speed at close range. From ROCH Chapter 37 - Gratitudes And Grudges Over Three Generations:

    The skinny man sneered, “You’re about to die and you still try to be a
    hero!” Three of them shot out their palms together and aimed at his
    head. Ke Zhen’E knew he was not their match and just stood there, not
    attempting any retaliation or defense.

    Suddenly a gust of wind blew over them and a ‘peng’ sound was heard,
    causing the dust to fly. The four of them knew something was wrong and
    felt as if they did not hit any flesh. That bald man understood what was
    going on but Ke Zhen’E had suddenly disappeared and in his position was
    the statue. The statue’s head was smashed and fell into pieces under the
    four people’s combined force.

    The bald man was shocked. He turned around and saw a thirty-something
    year old man with a furious face holding Ke Zhen’E’s neck and lifting
    him high into the air, shouting, “Why did you insult my father?”

    In the timespan of the Jin flunkies starting to throw out their palms to when their palms would land, Yang Guo shot out a statue in Ke Zhen E's place (possibly the same statue Ke Zhen E and Huang Rong hid behind many years before), and whisked away Ke Zhen E, without the flunkies noticing what had happened. In the trilogy, only Xiao Longnu and the Yellow Dressed Lady have performed short range speed feats that are faster.

  4. #4
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    I was impressed when YG jumped back the fastest he could when he failed to assasinate GJ and GJ managed to jump forward and grab YG before he even gets out the room.

    Overall speed-wise, Yang Guo or ZWJ might take it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    I was impressed when YG jumped back the fastest he could when he failed to assasinate GJ and GJ managed to jump forward and grab YG before he even gets out the room.

    Overall speed-wise, Yang Guo or ZWJ might take it.
    Come to think of it, YG should have been very quick considering his AT training and that he was being cautious (ready to jump back). GJ leaping out of lying position to grab him anyway is a pretty nice feat.

  6. #6
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    I just reread the part when Zhou Botong dashed in from nowhere and snatched away Golden Wheel Monk's beef. Here is a translation by Noodles:

    Everyone looked at each other startled. Xiao Xiang Zi loosened his chopsticks and sat back down in his seat. Jin Lun Fa Wang laughed and said, “Thank you, thank you!” He was about to place the piece of beef in his mouth when suddenly the tent opened, someone flashed across and stretched out their hand, they snatched Fa Wang’s beef and then took a large bite out of it.

    This shocked everyone, they all stood up and looked at who this person was. It was an old man with white hair and a white beard with a smiling red face.
    He sat down on the rug and started chewing the beef noisily. Jin Lun Fa wang thought back on the movements of this man when he took his piece of beef, the more he thought about, the more shocked he was.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  7. #7
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Geez, it's like JY deliberately made GWM look pathetic at every turn

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dirt's Avatar
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    Yang Guo and Fa Wang were foils. Yang Guo was made to look good at every turn and Fa Wang was made to make Yang Guo look good.

  9. #9
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
    Yang Guo and Fa Wang were foils. Yang Guo was made to look good at every turn and Fa Wang was made to make Yang Guo look good.
    *Every* character in ROCH was used to make that damn Yeung Gor look good. Jin Yong even (figuratively) dug poor old dead Central Divinity out of his grave to desecrate his legacy for Yeung Gor' sake. Jin Yong even contrived an inscrutable "Sword Demon" to make Yeung Gor look even better.

    Such desperate Gary Stu-building is seldom seen even in fan fiction.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    *Every* character in ROCH was used to make that damn Yeung Gor look good. Jin Yong even (figuratively) dug poor old dead Central Divinity out of his grave to desecrate his legacy for Yeung Gor' sake. Jin Yong even contrived an inscrutable "Sword Demon" to make Yeung Gor look even better.

    Such desperate Gary Stu-building is seldom seen even in fan fiction.
    Not as obviously as Guo Jing and the various antagonists in LOCH. ROCH has the antagonists thrown around haphazardly for the purpose of advancing the plot. In LOCH, the antagonists regularly explcitly reassess Guo Jing's ability, so we have a good idea of his power level at any point in the novel. We at least get into the mind of Yang Guo figuring out martial arts principles by himself, rather than be given it.

  11. #11
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    Not as obviously as Guo Jing and the various antagonists in LOCH. ROCH has the antagonists thrown around haphazardly for the purpose of advancing the plot. In LOCH, the antagonists regularly explcitly reassess Guo Jing's ability, so we have a good idea of his power level at any point in the novel. We at least get into the mind of Yang Guo figuring out martial arts principles by himself, rather than be given it.
    Gwok Jing wasn't beating any Greats in LOCH. He was making reasonable gains against third- and fourth-stringers such as Au Yeung Hak, Sa Tung Teen, and Leung Tze Yung. No Greats were humbled for Gwok Jing's sake. At the end of LOCH, any Great could still beat him, albeit not in fewer than three-hundred strokes.

    Yeung Gor, on the other hand, "magically" began beating Greats all of a sudden.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Gwok Jing wasn't beating any Greats in LOCH. He was making reasonable gains against third- and fourth-stringers such as Au Yeung Hak, Sa Tung Teen, and Leung Tze Yung. No Greats were humbled for Gwok Jing's sake. At the end of LOCH, any Great could still beat him, albeit not in fewer than three-hundred strokes.

    Yeung Gor, on the other hand, "magically" began beating Greats all of a sudden.
    He didn't magically do anything, except get more internal (which Guo Jing also got, to an extent which isn't explained by the text). Every step of the way, we get to see Yang Guo's thought processes as he figured out each step in his improvement.

    1. In experimenting with Quanzhen swordplay in a fight with GWM, and with his understanding of the WCY-LCY relationship, he figures out the Pure Heart swordplay, which WCY never did. This would later lead to his thematic identification of himself with WCY, and XLN as LCY. The personality that allowed him to see this was what made him the Eagle Hero.
    2. He was helped in a way by GWM's advice to concentrate on a few skills rather than many. However, he rejected this for another understanding of MA - after fire deviating in trying to combine his many skills into one, he understood that, if he just broke out whatever move seems most apprpriate for the situation, rather than limit himself to a particular set, that's as good as inventing a new skill. FQY explicitly taught LHC this lesson in SPW, a lesson YG realised on his own without instruction. He would later put these contrasting lessons together in creating sad palms, something he did out of boredom, and probably as an intellectual challenge.
    3. From the sentence "simplicity brings superiority", he derived the entire heavy sword technique, and the basis of at least one branch of his future MA development.

    Other than the gall bladders (I'm of the opinion that they opened the meridians and provided a short term boost for training purposes, rather than anything lasting), the most significant MA developments in YG's career were made possible by his personality, which were visible the very first time we see him, before GJ and HR even turn up in the novel.

  13. #13
    Member JoeLee's Avatar
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    What about when YG holding an injured XLN, let her go, flew a couple of feet and grabbed and sealed Sun Bu'er's pressure points and got back to XLN before she fell..pretty fast...

  14. #14
    Senior Member Dirt's Avatar
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    Not to mention, Fa Wang was able to take full force hits from 3 Greats and not fall. But Yang Guo was able to defeat him. Following this idea tells me that even if DGQB were to come back from the dead to fight Yang Guo, Yang Guo would win; he always does, he always surpasses his teachers. Which makes DGQB >> Greats debatable. YG was better than the Greats as he endedup better than everyone. However, that doesn't prove DGQB was better than the original Greats.

    And the gall bladders had to do more than open meridians to heal Yang Guo.
    Last edited by Dirt; 03-26-10 at 08:43 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
    Not to mention, Fa Wang was able to take full force hits from 3 Greats and not fall. But Yang Guo was able to defeat him. Following this idea tells me that even if DGQB were to come back from the dead to fight Yang Guo, Yang Guo would win; he always does, he always surpasses his teachers. Which makes DGQB >> Greats debatable. YG was better than the Greats as he endedup better than everyone. However, that doesn't prove DGQB was better than the original Greats.

    And the gall bladders had to do more than open meridians to heal Yang Guo.
    His wound had healed by the time he climbed up to the sword tomb out of boredom. The first time he ate gall bladders was after he was knocked out by the divine eagle whilst duelling. He was surprised he didn't feel weary after being knocked out, but HYS's 9 flower pills also refresh, and GJ had plenty of those. IMHO the gall bladders helped him to train for longer, but his strength came from his training. Hence his internal gained hugely during the 16 year period, where there is no mention of any more gall bladders.

  16. #16
    Member Bei Rongkun's Avatar
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    I vote Zhou Botong, because he seems a very agile person.

  17. #17
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Gwok Jing wasn't beating any Greats in LOCH. He was making reasonable gains against third- and fourth-stringers such as Au Yeung Hak, Sa Tung Teen, and Leung Tze Yung. No Greats were humbled for Gwok Jing's sake. At the end of LOCH, any Great could still beat him, albeit not in fewer than three-hundred strokes.
    You can't be serious? Guo Jing did rather inexplicably made Qiu Qianren and Ouyang Feng look weaker than usual.

    Actually, Yang Guo and Xiao Longnu's triumph over GWM can be explained by GWM's unbelivable lousy fighting ability (which seemed to be the case for Qiu Qianren too). As mentioned recently, even a 7th/8th tier scrub such as Monsieur Ma could land a hit on GWM. I am seriously reconsidering Wu Wudi's suggested assessment of Golden... I mean Broken, Wheel Monk as a non-Great.

    As for Wang Chongyang, he wasn't made weaker IMO. In fact if anything, ROCH made Wang Chongyang look STRONGER. LOCH painted Wang Chongyang as someone who was only marginally better than 30-year old Greats. By normal rate of improvement, ROCH Greats will have surpassed Wang. If not for Jin Yong's insertion of Wang having absorbed the essence of 9 Yin, having self-proclaimed that he was undefeated, AND having his disciples thinking he would be > GWM, then by logic Wang Chongyang should < ROCH Greats. There's no doubt in my mind that ROCH upgraded Wang Chongyang's martial arts level.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  18. #18
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    By the way, may I be advised on exactly what did Qiu Qianren do in the novel that suggested he was extremely fast in short-distance traveling?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  19. #19
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    You can't be serious? Guo Jing did rather inexplicably made Qiu Qianren and Ouyang Feng look weaker than usual.
    Kau Cheen Yan was a strange case that I won't touch; I believe he had confidence issues akin to the Golden Wheel Monk's in ROCH.

    West Poison Au Yeung Fung is much easier to explain: he could have killed Gwok Jing at any time in LOCH. Gwok Jing was not his match at any point during that story. Au Yeung Fung could not afford to kill Gwok Jing, however; he needed Gwok Jing to recite the 9 Yum Jen Ging to him. Therefore, any time we saw Au Yeung Fung fight Gwok Jing during LOCH, almost certainly Au Yeung Fung was not going all-out.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Kau Cheen Yan was a strange case that I won't touch; I believe he had confidence issues akin to the Golden Wheel Monk's in ROCH.

    West Poison Au Yeung Fung is much easier to explain: he could have killed Gwok Jing at any time in LOCH. Gwok Jing was not his match at any point during that story. Au Yeung Fung could not afford to kill Gwok Jing, however; he needed Gwok Jing to recite the 9 Yum Jen Ging to him. Therefore, any time we saw Au Yeung Fung fight Gwok Jing during LOCH, almost certainly Au Yeung Fung was not going all-out.
    Both Ouyang Feng and Qiu Qianren were fighting all out to kill Guo Jing in the dark hut. Unlike Yang Guo, Guo Jing had the same disadvantages in the dark as Ouyang Feng and Qiu Qianren had, yet the two of them, combined, fighting to the best of their ability, were unable to quickly beat Guo Jing, who was holding his own until Zhou Botong joined the fight as well. From LOCH Chapter 38 – Secret Order in Embroidered Pouch:

    Ouyang Feng and Qiu Qianren felt the wind from Zhou Botong?s sleeves,
    they realized he had jumped to the beam; they had the same thought of
    joining forces and kill this dumb kid, suddenly Guo Jing had to face a
    converging attack from left and right.

    Initially Guo Jing was surrounded by Zhou Botong?s attacks; he had tried
    four, five different techniques but was unable to free himself. He was
    waiting for Zhou Botong to withdraw when two powerful enemies attacked;
    which forced him to groan inwardly. He had no choice but braced himself
    and used the mutual hands combat technique to resist these two.

    After fighting for a while Ouyang Feng and Qiu Qianren were unable to
    restrain their amazement. Knowing Guo Jing?s skill, either one of Ouyang
    Feng or Qiu Qianren should be able to defeat him easily. Who would have
    thought that after fighting two against one, Guo Jing?s left palm could
    block Ouyang Feng?s attacks, while his right fist thwarted Qiu?s palms?
    Two people were helpless against one.

    None of Yang Guo's opponents underperformed quite as inexplicably as Ouyang Feng and Qiu Qianren did against Guo Jing. He was constantly having to use his wits to pull off unorthodox tricks against stronger opponents, until he could compete with Greats on a similar level with the HIS.

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