Random Thoughts of Wuxia

[Ian Liew]

I'm short on the details, but that was the original plan for the ending of ROCH: Little Dragon Girl was to have been revealed to have actually died when she jumped into Passionless Valley.

I think it would have been a much more fitting ending myself, but Jin Yong didn't dare go through with it; he thought that the audience wouldn't be willing to buy a downer ending.

I think a downer ending works better if it fits the tone of the story, which it would have in ROCH. Its happy ending always felt like a cop-out to me.

What would interest me the most in that scenario would be the character development of Guo Fu, and how she changes to become a woman which Yang Guo could accept given that he wasn't exactly short of quality options. Of course, the difficulty in writing that part was what probably made Jin Yong abort the thought.

[Ken Cheng]

What would interest me the most in that scenario would be the character development of Guo Fu, and how she changes to become a woman which Yang Guo could accept given that he wasn't exactly short of quality options. Of course, the difficulty in writing that part was what probably made Jin Yong abort the thought.

Given that Jin Yong is the "God" of the universe in which Gwok Fu "exists," Gwok Fu only gets as "dirty" as Jin Yong wants her to be by continually shoveling dirt on her head. If he just stopped shoveling, that would be a start.

Heck, ROCH '83 even provided a crude blueprint for how it could be done; Annie Liu's Gwok Fu was one of the most (comparatively) sympathetic portrayals of the character...far beyond any attempt by Jin Yong to humanize her (read: none).

Even setting aside all my personal reasons for disliking ROCH, I still say it's one of Jin Yong's worst stories because he managed his characterizations in this story with all the subtlety and finesse of a sledgehammer. He's usually much more subtle and refined; I don't know what went wrong with ROCH.

[Ian Liew]

Given that Jin Yong is the "God" of the universe in which Gwok Fu "exists," Gwok Fu only gets as "dirty" as Jin Yong wants her to be by continually shoveling dirt on her head. If he just stopped shoveling, that would be a start.

Heck, ROCH '83 even provided a crude blueprint for how it could be done; Annie Liu's Gwok Fu was one of the most (comparatively) sympathetic portrayals of the character...far beyond any attempt by Jin Yong to humanize her (read: none).

Even setting aside all my personal reasons for disliking ROCH, I still say it's one of Jin Yong's worst stories because he managed his characterizations in this story with all the subtlety and finesse of a sledgehammer. He's usually much more subtle and refined; I don't know what went wrong with ROCH.

I liked Annie Liu a lot and found her really cute, but her Guo Fu annoyed me no end. Chen Zihan's Guo Fu in ROCH 2006 came across as less bad-tempered, and was extremely attractive. I actually felt for her, the way Yang Guo messed around with her, but Huang Xiaoming's younger Yang Guo always did annoy me (compared to Andy Lau, who I adored).

[Alinda]

i see................ i have personally read rather little of roch..............i got a headache due to the fact that i don't like yang guo (so suspicious of everyone) and the fact i can't read chinese so i had to rely on the excellent translations here

[junny]

I liked Annie Liu a lot and found her really cute, but her Guo Fu annoyed me no end. Chen Zihan's Guo Fu in ROCH 2006 came across as less bad-tempered, and was extremely attractive. I actually felt for her, the way Yang Guo messed around with her, but Huang Xiaoming's younger Yang Guo always did annoy me (compared to Andy Lau, who I adored).

Annie Liu was an excellent Guo Fu. The actress was really pretty too in that role, had some lovely costumes typical of the 80s wuxia wardrobe.

What about Gigi Fu's version? She was in the 1995 one with Louis Koo.

[kidd]

What about Gigi Fu's version? She was in the 1995 one with Louis Koo.

I think ROCH95 put Guo Fu in the best light as I don't hate her at all while watching ROCH95. ROCH95 also make Huang Rong less bias. When I watch the Taiwan version and the ROCH84, I really want to slap HR for the biasness and unfairness on Yang Guo. But, in ROCH95, I see her caring side and totally understand what she's doing.

[Ken Cheng]

I liked Annie Liu a lot and found her really cute, but her Guo Fu annoyed me no end.

Gwok Fu *must* be annoying because that's her character, but I felt ROCH '83 (and Annie Liu's performance) really helped to humanize Gwok Fu because it showed us the *reason* that she behaved the way she did. Jin Yong never gave the character such depth (he just wanted her to be a monstrous foil for Yeung Gor), but ROCH '83 gave us a character who was basically good, but haunted by deep insecurities. ROCH '83 Gwok Fu was conscious of her limitations, and seemed to feel the enormity of being the unworthy daughter of two legendary heroes. I actually was able to feel sorry for her.

[PJ]

When I first read the passage below, my heart stirred a little.

小昭幽幽的道：“我幼年之时，便见妈妈日夜不安，心惊胆战，遮掩住她好好
的容貌，化装成一个好丑样的老太婆。她又不许我跟她在一起，将我寄养在别人家
里，隔一两年才来瞧我一次。这时候我才明白，她为甚么干冒大险，要和我爹爹成
婚。公子，咱们今天若非这样，别说做教主，便是做全世界的女皇，我也不愿。”
说道这里，她双颊红晕如火。

Now I'm starting to really get it...

[dictionary]

I can sort of see how Guo Jing and Yang Guo are like their parents. But Zhang Wuji, I see his father in him but not so much his mother.

[odbayarb2000]

Is wuxia section dead? Does The current less activity in the wuxia forum have anything to do with the global shift towards the Social Networking Communities like Facebook, Twitter etc? Are Bulletin Boards Outdated? Or it's simply less attention towards wuxia in general? Or are we discussed the genre to the death? What should be done to revitalize the interest?

[whiteskwirl]

Is wuxia section dead? Does The current less activity in the wuxia forum have anything to do with the global shift towards the Social Networking Communities like Facebook, Twitter etc? Are Bulletin Boards Outdated? Or it's simply less attention towards wuxia in general? Or are we discussed the genre to the death? What should be done to revitalize the interest?

Jin Yong has been discussed to death, but that's hardly the end of it. There are many more wuxia authors to try out. It's just that for those who don't read Chinese, there aren't a lot of options since not much has been translated other than Jin Yong and Gu Long. I don't think bulletin boards are outdated. Among the Rivers and Lakes is still small, but doing well. I think more fan translations are needed to really pick things up, though. Also more information about wuxia and wuxia authors needs to be available in English, which is what I'm in the slow process of working on with Wuxia Wiki.

To revitalize it I think the conversation has to go beyond Jin Yong. What I would say to anyone who is frustrated by lack of activity, give Among the Rivers and Lakes a shot. The community there is small still, but it is building slowly. And there is more to be discussed there besides Jin Yong.

[PJ]

Is wuxia section dead? Does The current less activity in the wuxia forum have anything to do with the global shift towards the Social Networking Communities like Facebook, Twitter etc? Are Bulletin Boards Outdated? Or it's simply less attention towards wuxia in general? Or are we discussed the genre to the death? What should be done to revitalize the interest?

I think this particularly wuxia community has moved on. I don't think wuxia in general is dead (just my feeling; could be wrong). It's just that most SPCNET members were fairly young, and they have other interests now. This age group is also more adaptive to new technologies, so they probably spend more time on newer social platforms now.

It seems to me that the vibrant wuxia discussions on SPCNET was a snapshot in time, and that time has passed. As we speak there's probably a new vibrant wuxia discussion taking place with a new generation on a new platform that will run its course and share the same fate as what came before it.

[smurf120]

Even though I have joined the board to 6 years, it seems difficult to join in some conversations, especially threads such as this one which has run for 16 pages of dialogue. Also inevitable trackback to same topics - LOCH, ROCH, HSDS, maybe to lesser extent SPW.

Facebook is easier to satisfy instant gratification on mini subjects and less likely to be reprimanded for posting similar topics over and over. Also easier to link pictures, videos, posters without re-quoting into page long post.

As PJ says, as each generation changes, so goes the technology. The other platforms will be met with something even more interactive later.

[Ian Liew]

We need 0-0-0 to run another SPCNet Idol or something to bring everyone back here again! At least for a few weeks.

[Ken Cheng]

Any wuxia adaptation wherein the characters/actors spend most of the fight scenes *off* the ground and projecting energy beams at each other rather than engaging in fisticuffs can't be deemed a good adaptation.

[9dragonkings]

Any wuxia adaptation wherein the characters/actors spend most of the fight scenes *off* the ground and projecting energy beams at each other rather than engaging in fisticuffs can't be deemed a good adaptation.

What about the CGI fight scene of Feng Qing Yang v.s. DFBB in the 2012 SOD. I found it quite entertaining. (A fight scene of the two strongest characters in SOD who wouldn't find it interesting)

As long as the CGI is well done I don't think it is much of a problem. Most of the fights in Jin Yong Novel is quite supernatural. If internal energy is real wouldn't it be wise to use it as a massive projectile rather then exposing your openings in close range. Like Duan Yu Phenomenal Swords of the Six Channels is some overhax technique (cannot be blocked) can only be translated with invisible energy beams, (According to Jin Yong) Which I found quite ridiculous how are one suppose to avoid it if you can't see it.

Phenomenal Swords of the Six Channels has got to be one of the overhax skills in Wuxia, cannot be blocked and difficult to avoid because their invisible. You know what? I love it because it interesting and Jin Yong giving the most dangerous skill in Tian Long Ba Bu to the most pacifist character is a good move, intriguing.

[BlackRaven]

Jin Yong has been discussed to death, but that's hardly the end of it. There are many more wuxia authors to try out. It's just that for those who don't read Chinese, there aren't a lot of options since not much has been translated other than Jin Yong and Gu Long. I don't think bulletin boards are outdated. Among the Rivers and Lakes is still small, but doing well. I think more fan translations are needed to really pick things up, though. Also more information about wuxia and wuxia authors needs to be available in English, which is what I'm in the slow process of working on with Wuxia Wiki.

To revitalize it I think the conversation has to go beyond Jin Yong. What I would say to anyone who is frustrated by lack of activity, give Among the Rivers and Lakes a shot. The community there is small still, but it is building slowly. And there is more to be discussed there besides Jin Yong.

Exactly. I love Jin Yong's works, but almost every facet of his major novels have been discussed in detail already. This forum is a treasure trove of knowledge and debate regarding his novels, which is a good thing.

But more wuxia is always better. We don't want the genre to die do we? I think the genre is alive and well. These latter wuxia novelists have learned from Jin Yong and grew up admiring him, their works may be just as enjoyable as the classics.

Western Fantasy seems to be improving with each generation. A song of fire and ice seem to arouse more passion than older fantasy series. Imagine if you can find a new wuxia novel that you enjoy as much as Smiling Proud Wanderer or LOCH? Why not discuss that new novel too?