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Thread: The Better Pope?

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    Senior Member pemberly's Avatar
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    Default The Better Pope?

    Who was/is the better pope, the current Pope Benedict XVI or his predecessor Pope John Paul II?

    Pope John Paul was charismatic and likable, so much in fact that people pressed for sainthood as soon as he had passed. We all remember him as the world traveler who was friends with Bono and inspired new generations of Catholics. what we now know is that he misjudged and befriended people who were less than holy and delegated power badly. It was under John Paul that many of the recent scandals that have come to light, spread.

    Pope Benedict, let's face it, looks evil. from the beginning, people didn't like him because of his involvement in the Nazi party when he was young, and even his real name (Ratzinger) doesn't sound all that appealing. And his nickname is "God's Rottweiler!" however, ...

    In the 1990s, it was Ratzinger who pushed for a full investigation of Hans Hermann Groer, the Vienna cardinal accused of pedophilia, only to have his efforts blocked in the Vatican. It was Ratzinger who persuaded John Paul, in 2001, to centralize the churchís haphazard system for handling sex abuse allegations in his office. It was Ratzinger who re-opened the long-dormant investigation into Macielís conduct in 2004, just days after John Paul II had honored the Legionaries in a Vatican ceremony. It was Ratzinger, as Pope Benedict, who banished Maciel to a monastery and ordered a comprehensive inquiry into his order. (reposted from the nytimes article: The Better Pope by Ross Douthat)
    so, it seems that he has always been the man in the background trying to do good, and he is now trying his best to lead the Catholic Church back from scandal.

    so who do you think was/is the better pope? Is facade in this case better than what's behind the scenes? one had increased the number of the flock, but the other is trying to fix the ramparts within.

    and please spare me the comments about how the Catholic Church is bad and diddles little kids, etc. that is not the issue here, and we've heard it all before. i'm not Catholic, but I do take offense to people mouthing off idiotically.
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    I just hate all those hypocritical priests who either raped/molested children and those helped covering up the crimes. When those so called christian knocked my door and trying to convert me, I just telling them that I am not interested and never come back. When they asked me for donation and told me how great Jesus is, I told them I am not christian and donated nothing. If Pope John Paull II did tried to cover up for rapist priests and if there were heaven and hell, then he deserves to stay in hell for what he did...

    Back to the topic, if what you wrote is the truth, then Pope Benedict XVI is the better one.

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    Senior Member jadebunny9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    I just hate all those hypocritical priests who either raped/molested children and those helped covering up the crimes. When those so called christian knocked my door and trying to convert me, I just telling them that I am not interested and never come back. When they asked me for donation and told me how great Jesus is, I told them I am not christian and donated nothing. If Pope John Paull II did tried to cover up for rapist priests and if there were heaven and hell, then he deserves to stay in hell for what he did...

    Back to the topic, if what you wrote is the truth, then Pope Benedict XVI is the better one.
    The Christians knocking on your door probably aren't the same Catholics that this topic is speaking of.

    This is a tough call. The current pope certainly looks a lot meaner compared to the old one. John Paul II was certainly a very charismatic figure. Though he could have been loose on certain things, he also did other good things as well, so I don't think this would necessarily cancel out those things. I think it's going to take more time to be able to tell how things are going with the current pope.

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    Senior Member Lucre's Avatar
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    I think both are very holy people, each has his own virtues and flaws; and many times people are twice as likely to view their mistakes under the microscope, whilst judge them under the benchmark of perfection. If they do something good, that's great, but quite expected. I cannot say which is better, because I do not feel strongly for this issue, in terms of comparison.

    We must also take into account the background of each man, and how it shaped their mindset; and that if some of their actions seemed bad or terrible to us, we must remember that we do not have the full knowledge of what they are going through, and our judgement tends to be bias based on what we know only.

    TC, most christians who go evangelising door-to-door are rarely catholics, in fact, most Catholics dont go evangelising, prefering to hide behind the church. serious! we lacked the zeal the protestant christians have.
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    Senior Member pemberly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucre View Post
    TC, most christians who go evangelising door-to-door are rarely catholics, in fact, most Catholics dont go evangelising, prefering to hide behind the church. serious! we lacked the zeal the protestant christians have.
    actually, most protestants don't go door to door either, except for the way out there baptists. the people knocking are most likely jehovah's witnesses or mormons. i want a quaker to come knock on my door in full quaker costume. i'd ask him for some oatmeal.
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    Senior Member Lucre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pemberly View Post
    actually, most protestants don't go door to door either, except for the way out there baptists. the people knocking are most likely jehovah's witnesses or mormons. i want a quaker to come knock on my door in full quaker costume. i'd ask him for some oatmeal.
    in singapore we actually have some of the members of a few non-denominational churches approaching people on the streets, in this regard, i really dont see any catholic doing that (we're too shy....lol)

    ur right on the JW people knocking on doors though...theres this JW who goes to preach to my mom about her faith every week. My mom said that she felt sorry for her and so if shes' not too 'busy' she lets her in and yak abit so she might feel better....

    (don't asked, im amazed my mom had such patience....LOL)
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    Member Bei Rongkun's Avatar
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    actually I can easily dismissed christian door to door preacher or street preacher. but I have more than one case where I met Buddhist activist that invited me to pray together, this is harder to refuse since he said "whatever your religion it's ok, just join in the pray." harder to find excuses... . They usually go door to door in singapore HDB also.

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    Senior Member Canuck21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    I just hate all those hypocritical priests who either raped/molested children and those helped covering up the crimes. When those so called christian knocked my door and trying to convert me, I just telling them that I am not interested and never come back. When they asked me for donation and told me how great Jesus is, I told them I am not christian and donated nothing. If Pope John Paull II did tried to cover up for rapist priests and if there were heaven and hell, then he deserves to stay in hell for what he did...

    Back to the topic, if what you wrote is the truth, then Pope Benedict XVI is the better one.
    You obviously show your lack of knowledge of Christians as a whole. Catholics do not go door-to-door. Learn more about the Catholic Church, the protestants, the Orthodox, etc. and then come back and comment. Swallowing whatever the liberal-centric media is not fair.
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    Senior Member Lucre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bei Rongkun View Post
    actually I can easily dismissed christian door to door preacher or street preacher. but I have more than one case where I met Buddhist activist that invited me to pray together, this is harder to refuse since he said "whatever your religion it's ok, just join in the pray." harder to find excuses... . They usually go door to door in singapore HDB also.
    well, the other option you may say is, "well im sorry, but my religion forbade me to pray to anything outside my religion, so i cant pray with you"
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    Member Bei Rongkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucre View Post
    well, the other option you may say is, "well im sorry, but my religion forbade me to pray to anything outside my religion, so i cant pray with you"
    naah, that'll be rude and I'll be accused believe in "exclusive" religion, intolerance , and not logic since I still be praying for my God in his place. And if I come with more xplanation, I'll be accused doing counter door to door proselystisssm (hard to spell this word).


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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    The Catholic one.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Senior Member Lucre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bei Rongkun View Post
    naah, that'll be rude and I'll be accused believe in "exclusive" religion, intolerance , and not logic since I still be praying for my God in his place. And if I come with more xplanation, I'll be accused doing counter door to door proselystisssm (hard to spell this word).

    i dont really see muslims going door-to-door either, and they were pretty exclusive about restrictions...

    well, there are people soooo steep in atheism that the act to pray go against their 'beliefs'....thats also a 'religion' in itself.

    though i was only offering you an idea in my earlier post if you really adhor the idea of praying with anyone. i dont personally have much problems if people wishes to pray together with me; and they are of different faith.
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    Senior Member Canuck21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bei Rongkun View Post
    naah, that'll be rude and I'll be accused believe in "exclusive" religion, intolerance , and not logic since I still be praying for my God in his place. And if I come with more xplanation, I'll be accused doing counter door to door proselystisssm (hard to spell this word).

    All you need to say is NO THANKS.
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    Member Bei Rongkun's Avatar
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    I was half joking. My earlier post intention is to say that not only Christian-sect do door to door approach.

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