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Thread: Which one is harder? Forgiving yourself or forgiving others?

  1. #1
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Default Which one is harder? Forgiving yourself or forgiving others?

    Don't know if this is the right place to post this question.

    So, simple question. Which one is harder for you? Forgiving yourself or forgiving others?

    Things to forgive for self can include
    - causing harm to others (intentionally or unintentionally)
    - doing something against your moral value
    - making wrong choices in the past

    Things to forgive for others can include
    - said person has wronged you or done harm to you.
    - said person has wronged or done harm to your love ones.
    - said person has done something really harmful to an innocent person or innocent people.
    - said person has done something against your moral value.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    I think I find it harder to forgive myself. I still feel ashamed about certain things I did as a child... and they were so long ago that I am probably the only one still remembering them, and FEEL them.
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    Senior Member xJadedx's Avatar
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    Definitely self.
    Because I'm somewhere in between,
    My love and my agony.

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    Senior Member ByTmE's Avatar
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    I must agree with the others. You can forget about other people in fleeting moments if they have wronged you. You can never really forget yourself. To date, there is one thing which I can't ever forgive or forget, and this was against myself.

    Frankly though, both are hard. If you think you can forgive but can't forget, then the truth is, maybe you have not forgiven, whether yourself or others.
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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    forgiving yourself is definitely harder.

    as for others, i can just cut them out of my life.
    but i can't cut myself off...

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    Senior Member Lucre's Avatar
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    i find both easy actually, but easier with others. when the event is over, i got over it, sometimes i remember, and if they are unrepentent, i may pray for them, and i feel sorry for them sometimes though i shouldnt be.

    as for myself, it's less easy, but i felt that, if i can forgive others, i should use the same standard to forgive myself. its not charitable to over-beat yourself over the same crime whereby you would already have long forgiven if it was committed by another person.
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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    So, it's the same for everyone. Forgiving others is easier than forgiving oneselves. I guess it's because we can't run away from ourselves. Furthermore, when other's done wrong, it's them, so, it doesn't devalue our perception of ourselves. But, if we are the one who did the wrong thing, we will become the person who is inadequate/bad/weak in our own eyes.
    Last edited by kidd; 05-13-10 at 03:06 AM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member Lucre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    So, it's the same for everyone. Forgiving others is easier than forgiving oneself. I guess it's because we can't run away from ourself. Furthermore, when other's done wrong, it's them, so, it doesn't devalue our perception of ourself. But, if we are the one who did the wrong thing, we will become the person who in inadequate/bad/weak in our own eyes.
    true, but provided if one realised one is at fault. sometimes when people simply think "im innocent, its someone else"...they have not even reached the part of forgiving their own mistakes, by virtue of not even realise they are wrong.
    o wilku mowa...♪

    The only thing I need to know is that I don't know anything.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Don't pass out forgiveness as if it were cheap candy. It should be offered only after restitution has been made or at least sincerely attempted. Otherwise, "forgiveness" becomes an empty gesture.

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    Member Bei Rongkun's Avatar
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    forgiving self is harder.

    forgiving other is sometimes like punishing them altogether.

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Don't pass out forgiveness as if it were cheap candy. It should be offered only after restitution has been made or at least sincerely attempted. Otherwise, "forgiveness" becomes an empty gesture.
    It will not be an empty gesture if the forgiveness is given sincerely irregardless of whether there is restitution (attempted and otherwise) or not.

    I know it's very hard to forgive if there's no attempt on the other side to apologise, make amend or get a comeuppance. But, if the hurt victim is able to do that it will not be an empty gesture and it certainly will not be a cheap candy.
    Last edited by kidd; 05-13-10 at 03:23 AM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Forgiving yourself is infinitely harder, because you think about yourself 99% of the time and live inside yourself 100% of the time.

    I forgive others so *I* can move on with my life and have more time to think about myself instead of those waste-of-time arseholes.
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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Don't pass out forgiveness as if it were cheap candy. It should be offered only after restitution has been made or at least sincerely attempted. Otherwise, "forgiveness" becomes an empty gesture.
    I would argue that by forgiving, you are relieving yourself of a burden. So it is never empty.
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    Senior Member Lucre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Don't pass out forgiveness as if it were cheap candy. It should be offered only after restitution has been made or at least sincerely attempted. Otherwise, "forgiveness" becomes an empty gesture.
    Its not something i can will it, i simply find it hard to bear grudges on anyone. if one think of forgiveness in a sense of, able to will it, after extracting satisfaction from the other party, how can that be true forgiveness?

    forgiveness isnt a statement "i forgive" but to really not let the matter bother you anymore.
    o wilku mowa...♪

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Candide and CC are both exactly right. Forgiving others is as beneficial to yourself as it is to them.

    Ye Kai sighed. "Actually, aside from the 'worry-forgetting wine', there's one other thing which will allow you to forget your worries and your hate."

    Ma Kongqun couldn't resist from asking, "What is that?"

    Ye Kai said, "That would be forgiveness."

    Ma Kongqun said, "Forgiveness?"

    Ye Kai said, "If even you yourself cannot forgive yourself, how can you expect others to forgive you?"

    He continued, "But only when a person can whole-hearted forgive someone else, can he forgive himself as well. Thus, if you can whole-heartedly forgive others, others can also forgive you."


    Ma Kongqun lowered his head.

    He didn't really understand this reasoning. Within the world in which he lived, he had always felt that 'vengeance' was far more manly and far more proper than 'forgiveness'.

    But all of them had forgotten that in order to reach the level of 'forgiveness', one must not only have a truly magnanimous heart, but also great courage; far more courage than is needed for vengeance. Forgiveness truly is far more difficult to achieve than vengeance.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 05-13-10 at 07:31 AM.
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    life is short. so i always forgive myself and others. so both are not hard for me. though there are certain things i do not forget.

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    Senior Member kay &!*'s Avatar
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    definitely forgiving myself. no doubt.
    Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

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    Senior Member ByTmE's Avatar
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    Forgiveness should be done for yourself regardless of you being at fault or another being at fault. When choosing to forgive, you are choosing to absolve another party or yourself of the wrongdoing. Therefore, essentially wiping the slate clean...can this really be done? Most of us never forget, so have we really forgiven? How do we determine if we have really forgiven rather than just having forgotten? Some people make mistakes and then they simply forget, is this forgiveness? The scale on which we judge our mistakes are different. I will usually learn from past mistakes, but forget? Unlikely, that probably means that those little mistakes didn't really warrant enough impact to require forgiveness in the beginning. For example, petty gossip or thievery, uncharitableness, or forgetting to take your pet to the vet.

    Greater misdeeds of moral betrayal, i.e. selling out one's kin, putting an innocents' life in danger, or harming another for personal gain, are not so easily forgiven, especially not forgotten whether you are the victim or the perpetrator. Most of us are lucky enough in life to never have to face those dilemmas, but for those who have, it's an entirely different world that they live in after realization.

    If you are the perpetrator, then you need to work on understanding why you committed such deeds against another and learn to forgive yourself. In my heart of hearts, you have no right to beg for forgiveness from the one that you wronged. If you are the victim of such misdeeds and can successfully choose to forgive AND forget, then IMHO you are simply divine. Unfortunately for me, I am simply human.
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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    I think true forgiveness is after you forgive, you won't let that issue or person bother you anymore. Long time ago, I've read some said she have forgiven her husband for having an affair but she wouldn't let him forget it. Uh, that doesn't sound like she has truly forgiven him.

    As for forgiving self. I think a lot of people also feel that forgiving oneself is selfish i.e. you let yourself off the hook after you have done wrong when you don't deserve to.

    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej View Post
    life is short. so i always forgive myself and others.
    That's really great.
    How did you do that?
    Last edited by kidd; 05-14-10 at 08:54 PM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post

    That's really great.
    How did you do that?
    Maybe, have not experienced those events noted by ByTmE "Greater misdeeds of moral betrayal, i.e. selling out one's kin, putting an innocents' life in danger, or harming another for personal gain"

    Maybe, i am a simple person

    Maybe, i know that we are all guests in Hotel Earth

    Maybe, i love everyone

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