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Thread: New BOOK OF WEAPONS ranking post-SSRS

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default New BOOK OF WEAPONS ranking post-SSRS

    At the beginning of SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN, RUTHLESS SWORD, Bak Hiu Sang's BOOK OF WEAPONS had the Top 5 ranking thus:

    1. Old Man Sheun (pipe)

    2. Seung Gwoon Gum Hung (metal rings)

    3. Lee Chum Foon (flying dagger)

    4. Gwok Sung Yeung (black iron sword)

    5. Lui Fung Sin (silver halberd)

    By the end of SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN, RUTHLESS SWORD, four of the top five were dead and their weapons no longer in use. What was the new Top 5 ranking like?

    We know the Top 3:

    1. Lee Chum Foon (flying dagger)

    2. Ah Fei (crude sword)

    3. Ging Mo Meng (sword)

    4. ???

    5. ???

    I guess Sai Mun Yau (he of the whip) might have gotten bumped up a few spots to # 4 or # 5?

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    How did Lu Fengxian die? I didn't read the novel much, but in the serial he was just, well, broken-willed. If he was still around he'd move up one spot to 4th.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    How did Lu Fengxian die? I didn't read the novel much, but in the serial he was just, well, broken-willed. If he was still around he'd move up one spot to 4th.
    Seung Gwoon Gum Hung never killed him, so unless Lui Fung Seen went on to commit suicide, he was probably still around.

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    1- Li XunHuan

    2- Hu Bugui the Crazy Tiger, he is implied to be even with LXH, but since Li killed SGJH, it's still a fantastic learning experience and so I put him ahead, but they are very close in skill.

    3- Jing Wuming: I always thought that he lost purposely to Ah Fei at the end due to being depressed over SGJH's death. When Jing Wuming used his right hand for the first time, Ah Fei was very jealous because JWM was faster. Then LXH said that something akin to "Even if JWM is better, he has no feelings, you have feelings thus you can improve." Implying that JWM was superior at that point in the story.

    4- Ah Fei

    5-The unnamed #6 fighter on the previous list, he should still be alive

    6-Ximen Rou the master of the whip and best soft weapon user in the last 30 years.

    7- the 10th guy on the old list that makes an appearance in Eagles Flying in September

    Lu Fengxian is going nuts at this point so hes not in any position to contest anything.

    Maybe Mr. Iron Flute could be in the new top 10, since #2 of Shaolin Xin Mei kinda feared him, so maybe Iron Flute would be around the same level as Xin Hu the leader of Shaolin, who had the balls to fight LXH (although he would have lost )

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackRaven View Post
    2- Hu Bugui the Crazy Tiger, he is implied to be even with LXH, but since Li killed SGJH, it's still a fantastic learning experience and so I put him ahead, but they are very close in skill.
    Forgot about him. He judo-flipped Lee Chum Foon easily once, which was hilarious.

    3- Jing Wuming: I always thought that he lost purposely to Ah Fei at the end due to being depressed over SGJH's death. When Jing Wuming used his right hand for the first time, Ah Fei was very jealous because JWM was faster. Then LXH said that something akin to "Even if JWM is better, he has no feelings, you have feelings thus you can improve." Implying that JWM was superior at that point in the story.
    Ging Mo Meng was better at that point, but that's because of the pernicious effect that Lam Sin Yee had on Ah Fei's skills. After Ah Fei ditched Lam Sin Yee, however, he pulled decisively ahead of Ging Mo Meng.

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackRaven View Post
    7- the 10th guy on the old list that makes an appearance in Eagles Flying in September
    I thought Yi Ku (Blue Scorpion's husband who was killed by Ah Fei) was No 10, or was he No 9?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    I thought Yi Ku (Blue Scorpion's husband who was killed by Ah Fei) was No 10, or was he No 9?
    Yup Yi Ku was number 9, and I guess his parents knew he would be #9 at something hence the name lol

    Too bad Blue scorpion died otherwise she would have been up there in the top 10

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    The first four individuals in the BOOK OF WEAPONS: Sheun, Seung Gwoon, Lee, and Gwok, truly were elite wulin fighters, but after those four, there seems to be a huge drop off. Lui Fung Seen didn't seem that impressive compared to the top four, and wasn't likely in a class with Ah Fei (at peak capacity) or Ging Mo Meng.

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    I don't think we ever really got to see Lu Fengxian's true ability - just that his composure alone was no match for Shangguan Jinhong. No one was really his match, though, so there's no shame, really - even Old Man Sun was afraid of SGJH.

    I forget - but does the novel ever mention who it was who beat him previously and made him dump his halberd?

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    No one beat him; when he found that he had been ranked 'only' number five, he felt that was an unforgiveable humiliation, but like everyone else, believed in Bai Xiaosheng. So rather than challenge any of the top four, he discarded his halberd to come up with an even deadlier weapon.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Poor fella! I read in Eagles in September, I think, that Bai Xiaosheng had used personal bias in his ranking too, so that the heroic and orthodox people got ranked higher, while the shady ones got ranked lower - Yi Ku was supposed to be more powerful than some of those ranked above him apparently. If Lu Fengxian had known that he wouldn't have bothered about the ranking by some chap who probably couldn't even make the top 50 by himself.

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    Well he couldn't be too far off this time, since I can't really see Lu being decisively better than the top 3, though I could see him being equals with Guo Songyang.

    Bai Xiaosheng could have been such a troll and re-released his rankings with Lu being like #12 or something.

    But yeah I agree that after Lu Fengxian and unranked Crazy Hu, the people below were significantly worse and were likely interchangeable. Wasn't Blue Scorpion supposed to be stronger than Yi Ku, except she got left off because she was a woman? Hunchback Sun looked to be her equal except he didn't fight for 20 years so made some rookie mistakes, but he should be up there as well. And Fat Merriment Buddha seems likely to be on that similar level too.

    Though Li Xunhuan has the reputation of never missing with his dagger, I doubt someone like Guo Songyang ever missed with his sword and needed more than 1-2 strokes to kill anyone until he met Li either!
    Last edited by tape; 08-01-14 at 12:57 PM.

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    After SSRS? Bai Tianyu should be in the top 5 then.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    I think it's quite perfect how one versus X is in this novel. It's impossible for a fighter to take on two of the top fighters, and even a few middle fighters can pose danger to top fighters such as Ah Fei. Yet, it makes sense that a top fighter like Guo Songyang can kill an inferior fighter (even if he's like 80-90% of his ability) in one blow.

    It's much better than Jin Yong's Greats-and-then-everyone-else syndrome, where the best can take on almost infinity amounts of inferior fighters unless there's a special formation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    I think it's quite perfect how one versus X is in this novel. It's impossible for a fighter to take on two of the top fighters, and even a few middle fighters can pose danger to top fighters such as Ah Fei. Yet, it makes sense that a top fighter like Guo Songyang can kill an inferior fighter (even if he's like 80-90% of his ability) in one blow.

    It's much better than Jin Yong's Greats-and-then-everyone-else syndrome, where the best can take on almost infinity amounts of inferior fighters unless there's a special formation.
    ...and then we have the legendary Wong Lin Fa, who did not actually appear in the story, but was said to have been superior to all of them.

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    Well at least in his own novel Shen Lang was there to counter balance him.

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    I remember a passage where one of the characters (probably Old Man Sun, or at least a decent fighter) said that if LXH studied Wang's martial arts manual, his dagger might not have been as fast.

    In the later novels it seems like LXH's dagger became invincible and legendary. So maybe NOT studying Wang's manual and focusing singlemindedly on the flying dagger was more beneficial to LXH in the long term.

    It might even be an argument to put LXH pretty high on any All Gu Long list. Although I'm a bit loath to do so. I like LXH in SSRS, he was compassionate, heroic, sharp witted, strong but NOT invincible. In Bordertown Wanderer, Jing Wuming's description of Li's dagger being invincible due to righteousness doesn't resonate with me at all, so I like that future LXH less.

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    I think that goes with the idea that Wang Linghua mastered (and actually really mastered) so many different things that his martial arts were still super legendary, but were a bit inferior to Shen Lang who only excelled in martial arts.

    Though the Lianhua Compendium was a legendary treasure, we still don't see how powerful it is similar to how 9 Yin was super legendary, but it only took Guo Jing to a slightly higher level.

    I wouldn't find it surprising if LXH would be able to compete with some of the top dogs, even forgetting the favoritism. It's all about that one moment of psychological victory for GL, and the dagger is best to capitalize.

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    I seem to recall that in Eagles in September there was a new ranking which included Ye Kai, Yi Yeku (Yi Ku's martial brother), Guo Ding (Guo Songyang's martial brother or was it cousin?) and Jade Flute... Bai Xiaosheng was already dead by that point, so was that an official compilation by his disciple or something?

    I also never really understood how Ye Kai, who was supposed to be a generation below Li Xunhuan, would be of similar ranking with Yi Ku and Guo Songyang's equals. Yi Yeku might have been really old, but Guo Ding was a young man like Ye Kai. Maybe Li Xunhuan took on an apprentice at a fairly young age - perhaps even before he faced Shangguan Jinhong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    I wouldn't find it surprising if LXH would be able to compete with some of the top dogs, even forgetting the favoritism. It's all about that one moment of psychological victory for GL, and the dagger is best to capitalize.
    Well put. This fits perfectly with the flavor of Gu Long novels.

    Though the Lianhua Compendium was a legendary treasure, we still don't see how powerful it is similar to how 9 Yin was super legendary, but it only took Guo Jing to a slightly higher level.
    The comparison between Lianhua compendium and 9 Yin is spot on because it seems Lianhua also contains miraculous healing techniques, as shown by Long Xiao Yun the kid recovering his inner power so quickly. SGJH posited that LXY could be a threat to him in 20 years if he wasn't crippled, and a continued study of the Lianhua compendium would have turned that remark into reality.

    I seem to recall that in Eagles in September there was a new ranking which included Ye Kai, Yi Yeku (Yi Ku's martial brother), Guo Ding (Guo Songyang's martial brother or was it cousin?) and Jade Flute... Bai Xiaosheng was already dead by that point, so was that an official compilation by his disciple or something?
    I don't think anyone updated Bai Xiaosheng's rankings but my memory is hazy so I can't say for sure.

    I also never really understood how Ye Kai, who was supposed to be a generation below Li Xunhuan, would be of similar ranking with Yi Ku and Guo Songyang's equals. Yi Yeku might have been really old, but Guo Ding was a young man like Ye Kai. Maybe Li Xunhuan took on an apprentice at a fairly young age - perhaps even before he faced Shangguan Jinhong?
    I think LXH accepted Ye Kai as his student after the end of SSRS. In Bordertown Wanderer, I think it was written that LXH first taught Ye Kai about forgiveness, and only after Ye Kai's values mirrored those of LXH did he teach him martial arts.

    In any case, I think Ye Kai started learning martial arts at a fairly young age, after he was mature enough to understand Li's moral lessons, but maybe not right after he could walk.

    Why would a guy who learned martial arts for only 10-15 years be more powerful than an older fighter? I think this shows that LXH's base martial arts are much better than Jade Reed Taoist (#10 on Book of Weapons) and Yi Ku's base martial arts.

    The story of 3 days of tutoring from Hong Qigong being better than 3 years of study under another master might apply here.

    An equivalent example from SSRS might be Jin Wuming being from a younger generation, yet he was more powerful than Zhuge Gang and Ximen Rou who were ranked #8 and #7 on the Book of Weapons.

    Also, LXH said that a prime Ah Fei would have beaten Lu FengXian. Even so, I find that LFX's martial arts skills is pretty impressive, although his mental fortitude is lacking. He could adopt a flawless stance, putting him on the cusp of formlessness.
    Last edited by BlackRaven; 08-02-14 at 08:18 PM.

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