Chinese gov are trying to get rid of Cantonese?

[QF]

I was at my parents house today and I saw a little bit of the news that says something about no more cantonese shows in Guang Dong. It caught my attention, but I was a little bit too late and the news was over.

I searched the web and I found the news:

http://app3.rthk.org.hk/rthk/news/bl...il.php?aid=211

Well, apparenlty the chinese government are telling Guangdong to cancel the cantonese shows and switch them with Mandarin shows.

Alot of people are thinking that the government is slowly trying to get rid of cantonese. There is a big protest going on right now.

What do you guys think about this?

I think its not going to happen, since there's alot of complaints and protest going on, I think the gov will eventually just get rid of the idea.

Lets, for the sake of the argument, assume that the chinese goverment is trying to slowly get rid of cantonese in guang dong. Is that such a bad thing? The article said that Mandarin is getting more and more popular in Guang Dong and Mando *IS* the official language of China. Maybe unifying a language isn't too bad? Maybe by unifying mandarin, places like Hong Kong won't need to play catch up with the rest of the world to learn mandarin?

Any input?

QF

[remember_Cedric]

i expect the non-pushover cantonese are gonna show their middle finger to the chinese gov and tell them to go and ''yat jiu" (eat banana)

[Ken Cheng]

i expect the non-pushover cantonese are gonna show their middle finger to the chinese gov and tell them to go and ''yat jiu" (eat banana)

Beijing ought to study some history and realize that Guangzhou was also where the *previous* revolution started.

[Dirt]

Not surprising. The PRC's central government has been trying to get rid of Shanghainese for at least 10 years. This was all a matter of time.

[kidd]

I support multilingual. A whole country using 1 language/dialect is boring. What's PRC thinking? I support the continue flourishing of cantonese, hakka, hokkien, teochew, Shanghainese etc. Damn you china!

Now, chinese overseas really have to keep it together and keep the Cantonese dialect alive.

I'll definitely teach my kids Cantonese when I have them in the future.

Now, fellow M'sian need to be grateful that our TV still allowed to show movies and show in Canto, Hokkean, Japanese, Mandarin, Tamil, instead of all dubbing to malay.

[Trien Chieu]

Shame on china.
I love the Teochew language.
If I have kid in the future, I would definitely teach them the teochew language.

[Ian Liew]

They're mad. Just because some bureaucrats in Beijing can't be bothered to learn the various dialects in the country (or at least have representatives from each province who can) doesn't mean that Mandarin is the only dialect used. Do they have any idea how much revenue the Canto market generates through TVB and other Hong Kong merchandise?

This makes me so mad that I'll pity the next China-import waitress in Kuala Lumpur who tries to make me order dimsum (a Canto word, mark that) in Mandarin.

[Dirt]

Resistance is futile.

[Ian Liew]

If they haven't succeeded in killing Shanghainese they probably won't succeed in killing Canto. It's a matter of time before something more urgent and productive comes along and takes their attention.

[Bai Qi44]

If that's the case, we might as well make China get rid of Mandarin too since no other country uses that language. Just speak English as it's an official language in many many countries. See how
absurd that idea is. Just keep all the languages and let time do its' thing.

[BlackRaven]

What is the true reason for snuffing out dialects in China? Are there nascent nationalist movements in China demanding more autonomy for the provinces?

I thought the Han of whichever dialect, and even the minorities, like the Koreans, are proud of being Chinese and readily learn Mandarin to fit in and gain economic success.

If it's not broken... don't fix it. Chinese from most provinces are already attached to the rich history of their country, no need to piss people off with shutting down dialect TV stations. This policy might stir up rebels where there wasn't any to begin with.

[PJ]

I understand the Gov's desire to have more people be fluent in the national dialect; there should be a standard. But to disallow the local dialect on local television is going to far. I'm a believer of both adopting standards AND cherishing local culture.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Quit over-reacting, folks.

The news doesn't say that they want to get rid of cantonese broadcasting entirely but only switch the "important" sections such as the prime time news & entertainment into mandarin in order to accomodate for the non-cantonese speakers (esp those that will be going to Guangzhou for the Asian Games).

While it is understandable why many would be upset if they believe the conspiracy theorists, but if they really think the cantonese dialect is weak enough to be erased because of not being broadcasted on TV--arn't they selling themselves short with the lack of faith in their own dialect and culture?

[kidd]

Quit over-reacting, folks.

The news doesn't say that they want to get rid of cantonese broadcasting entirely but only switch the "important" sections such as the prime time news & entertainment into mandarin in order to accomodate for the non-cantonese speakers (esp those that will be going to Guangzhou for the Asian Games).

While it is understandable why many would be upset if they believe the conspiracy theorists, but if they really think the cantonese dialect is weak enough to be erased because of not being broadcasted on TV--arn't they selling themselves short with the lack of faith in their own dialect and culture?

I was in the understanding that viewers can tune into other channels beside the local ones. So, there are plenty of mandarin news and entertainment shows for the non-cantonese speaker. Why need to force the local channel with its own flavor to broadcast 'important' shows in mandarin.

I don't see it as a conspiracy theory. They did force this TV stations to switch. Entertainment shows cover a lot of variety. And when you expose someone to the dialect everywhere, all the time, they will lean towards using the dialect more. Older generations might not be affected, but, younger generations will slowly change.

Secondly, it might start with only 'important' sections. Who know whether they will spread this directive to other sections later or not.

You probably are a non-cantonese speaker. So, you can be more 'fair', more 'objective' since you really don't care whether canto disappear or not.

Honestly, I might praise the current Malaysia chinese series for improved quality, but, I hate it that they are all in mandarin. So, I especially love it, when characters sprinkle their speech with other cantonese.

Also, years back, when radio 5 started a directive that every show must be in mandarin, all the songs broadcast must be in mandarin and the only show you can still listen to cantonese songs was the 1 hour song dedication program, I was very upset. After I found out there was 988, I swore off radio 5.

I believe most of the shows in china channels already in mandarin. Why can't they leave the small percentage that are not alone?

[Ren Ying Ying]

I was in the understanding that viewers can tune into other channels beside the local ones. So, there are plenty of mandarin news and entertainment shows for the non-cantonese speaker. Why need to force the local channel with its own flavor to broadcast 'important' shows in mandarin.

From my what I've observed from my stay in China, national and and most provincial broadcasting are done in mandarin but many local channels tend to be done in local dialect. (I am not from Guangdong by my region does have it's own dialect). Yes, the non-Cantonese speaking viewers can technically switch to a channel if they can't understand, but how do you expect them to watch the local news & entertainment? Hence, the suggestion of only changing it for the more crucial sections of news & other sections. Like I said, it's not like they decided to change it out of the blue but rather to accomodate for the influx of tourists that will arrive for the Asian Game (in Guangzhou). I haven't done extensive reseach or anything, but are we sure they are planning to make a permanent change or just a temporary fix?

Furthermore, if the "cantonese culture/dialect" is important to the cantonese people, they will make the effort to preserve it (ie. speaking it to each other, etc). Language is first and foremost used for communication. While it is important to preserve one's own culture, it is more important to be able to communicate & interact with others. Is it really a bad thing to expose people to more mandarin than cantonese?

Of course, if we are playing with QF's idea of "for the sake of the argument, let's assume", then it yes it is a bad thing to rid the cantonese dialect entirely. However, I think some people here are over-reacting and acting as if QF's "assumption" is the truth or something

[QF]

So everybody pretty much agrees that getting rid of cantonese(or any chinese dialect for that matter) is a bad thing.

Again, devil's advocate here, alot more people speak mando than canto. Do you guys find it kind of weird to have two people of Chinese descent to not be able to understand eachother? One person from Hong Kong will not understand somebody from Beijing.
A good example here: Ken Cheng and Ren Wo Xing, both are chinese but can't speak to eachother in chinese.

Emperor of Qin united six countries under one. Maybe uniting all languages into one is not such a bad idea.

QF

P.S. This is just a discussion, i'm not trying to encourage getting rid of any dialects here and I'm not trying to offend canto speakers at this forum.

[Ian Liew]

So everybody pretty much agrees that getting rid of cantonese(or any chinese dialect for that matter) is a bad thing.

Again, devil's advocate here, alot more people speak mando than canto. Do you guys find it kind of weird to have two people of Chinese descent to not be able to understand eachother? One person from Hong Kong will not understand somebody from Beijing.

Not at all. They'd have to get rid of Teochew, hokkien, Hakka and numerous other dialects. It's a good idea to practice a common dialect - and almost everyone below the age of 30 is learning Mandarin now, but the various societies within the huge landmass known as China should be allowed to continue speaking their various dialects. Cantonese and Hokkien in particular have a strong following overseas too, and the music industry for those two alone must generate substantial revenue for China (and Taiwan, in the case of Hokkien).

Quite a few Mandarin and Canto people can actually understand each other too, they just can't speak in that dialect. I can understand Mandarin if you spoke slowly (and preferably if you produced subtitles), but normally do not speak it unless I need to. A lot of Mandarin-speaking people I talk to who don't speak Canto also understand what I'm saying, but it's probably due to exposure to the dialect rather than any inherent linguistic trend identifiable in the dialect - I certainly can't understand a word of Hakka, Hokkien or Teochew when it's spoken in my presence.

Qin Shihuang's unification of the various countries came at a huge cost to the history of society, something which even until today people are mourning. In order to promote his language and culture, he destroyed the other cultures and burned their books. Who knows what gems China, and the rest of us, have missed out on in there?

[Trien Chieu]

So everybody pretty much agrees that getting rid of cantonese(or any chinese dialect for that matter) is a bad thing.

Not just Cantonese, but other languages as well. People of all cultures have every right to keep their languages alive no matter how minority they are.

Again, devil's advocate here, alot more people speak mando than canto. Do you guys find it kind of weird to have two people of Chinese descent to not be able to understand eachother? One person from Hong Kong will not understand somebody from Beijing.

Majority doesn't mean better. If people from beijing want to learn cantonese or and people from hongkong want to learn mandarin, they have every right to do so but demand the minority to give up their language is wrong.

A good example here: Ken Cheng and Ren Wo Xing, both are chinese but can't speak to eachother in chinese.

It's up to them to learn the other language but they should not be forced to get rid of their language.

Emperor of Qin united six countries under one. Maybe uniting all languages into one is not such a bad idea.

QF

It's good to have mandarin as a main language and teaching them at school but it should be up to the people to practice whatever languages they wanted. Cantonese sounded much better than mandarin in the movies but I still like my Teochew language the best among them.

P.S. This is just a discussion, i'm not trying to encourage getting rid of any dialects here and I'm not trying to offend canto speakers at this forum.

Ok, I see.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Majority doesn't mean better. If people from beijing want to learn cantonese or and people from hongkong want to learn mandarin, they have every right to do so but demand the minority to give up their language is wrong.

Not really. For example, English is the standard in the US, and if you can't speak, read, or write English properly, you're going to find life a little bit more difficult.

If all the dialect were on equal grounds, then you could make an argument for "majority doesn't mean better", but if there is already a standard set, then it takes priority. Mandarin should be a required, not optional. Regional dialect should be optional, not required.

[Ken Cheng]

A good example here: Ken Cheng and Ren Wo Xing, both are chinese but can't speak to eachother in chinese.

We can barely speak to each other in English too.