Mo Yung F'uk's martial arts level compared to LOCH Great?

[Ken Cheng]

Generally speaking, most believe that the DGSD Elite class of martial artist that includes Kiu Fung, Kau Mor Tze, Siu Yeun San, and Mo Yung Bok is about equivalent to the end-of-ROCH Greats.

Mo Yung F'uk was weaker than that level, but still a formidable fighter. Would he qualify for LOCH Great level?

[tape]

I'd say he's below LOCH Great level, but possibly around Great level during the first Huashan tournament. The only thing that stops me from putting him there is that he would then be more talented than all the other Greats, because that would have him reaching their level at a younger age, which I don't think is quite the intention JY had for MRF. He isn't some super prodigy like the greats are supposed to be.

But skillset-wise and inner strength wise, I think it's very possible he is at their level.

[PJ]

The only thing that stops me from putting him there is that he would then be more talented than all the other Greats, because that would have him reaching their level at a younger age, which I don't think is quite the intention JY had for MRF. He isn't some super prodigy like the greats are supposed to be.

I agree with this. Jin Yong described the Greats as having reached the level of perfection around the time of 1st Huashan Tournament, whereas Murong Fu has yet to reach the level of perfection in his practices. One gets the impression that the Greats were superior.

But I think Murong Fu must be very smart at learning martial arts. Despite having a bad strategy of trying to learn too much, he nevertheless reached an ultra high level. All of his comparable peers are twice his age. If he actually learned martial arts the right way, he might be a lot more powerful.

[chibidaisuke]

I wouldn't rate Murong Fu as less talented than Greats like Hong Qigong and Yideng who didn't really create any new styles. Huang Yaoshi and Ouyang Feng though I probably agree that they are indeed more talented than Murong Fu. Anyways I also think that he would be below the level of the LOCH Greats. The LOCH Greats IMO is around the equivalent of Ding Chunqiu and Duan Yanqing etc. Of course I could be wrong.

[Ian Liew]

But I think Murong Fu must be very smart at learning martial arts. Despite having a bad strategy of trying to learn too much, he nevertheless reached an ultra high level. All of his comparable peers are twice his age. If he actually learned martial arts the right way, he might be a lot more powerful.

If Murong Fu had met and befriended Golden Wheel Monk, and got the same advice from him which was given to Yang Guo about being a jack of all trades and master of none, who knows how powerful Murong Fu would have become?

Having said that his dad probably also used the same strategy and yet became a very powerful force, or maybe he just practised the Star Shifting stance to an impossibly high level?

[Banh Mi]

How powerful is MRF exactly though? I haven't read the novel so I can't get an accurate gauge.

He fought against a number of the Duans, XF came in to help him cause he couldn't fend them off, can we assess his abilities from that?

He's below Jiu Mozhi, he's also below Ding Chunqiu. He's below 1st evil.

How do we assess his level? The only thing I can think of is gauging how well he can deal with 1YZ.

[PJ]

Having said that his dad probably also used the same strategy and yet became a very powerful force, or maybe he just practised the Star Shifting stance to an impossibly high level?

It was said that the secret behind Murong family's ability to "shift one's moves back to himself" is the Shifting North Star technique. So Murong family does not have to learn a bunch of different arts, and I'm not sure if Murong Bo did when he was young. For sure he did after he got the 72 arts of Shaolin, but that was later.

[PJ]

How powerful is MRF exactly though? I haven't read the novel so I can't get an accurate gauge.

He fought against a number of the Duans, XF came in to help him cause he couldn't fend them off, can we assess his abilities from that?

He's below Jiu Mozhi, he's also below Ding Chunqiu. He's below 1st evil.

How do we assess his level? The only thing I can think of is gauging how well he can deal with 1YZ.

Murong Fu is below the level of Duan Yanqing, who is about 1/4 of Xiao Feng's power. So Muriong Fu is about 1/6 to 1/5 of Xiao Feng's power.

That's consistent with how easily he got defeated by Jiumozhi.

[Banh Mi]

Yeah, but how do we compare that with LOCH greats?
We don't see too many people that he's beaten that are worth mentioning. He can't beat Duan Yanqing, but does that mean he can't beat 1YZ, or he just can't beat Duan Yanqing?
We know for sure that it wasn't HL18Z but XF himself that beats MRF, but can he shift a HL18Z from H7G?
Stuff like that. How can we gauge him?

[PJ]

Yeah, but how do we compare that with LOCH greats?
We don't see too many people that he's beaten that are worth mentioning. He can't beat Duan Yanqing, but does that mean he can't beat 1YZ, or he just can't beat Duan Yanqing?
We know for sure that it wasn't HL18Z but XF himself that beats MRF, but can he shift a HL18Z from H7G?
Stuff like that. How can we gauge him?

Not sure if we can compare Murong Fu directly to Greats.

However, we can compare other DGSD ppl to characters in Trilogy, and use their level relative to Murong Fu to infer.

For example, Yideng and Jiumozhi performed similar gentle talking.

Duan Yanqing and Yideng are the only 2 Yiyang Finger practitioners that don't need to power up before using it.

Xiao Feng and Yang Guo can insert a spear into granite/stone similarly.

maybe Xiao Feng can run up a smooth steep surface better than Dugu Qiubai (postulated by HankyPanky).

[CC]

I wonder if JY himself was sure of what level he wanted MRF to be.

He could show decently against DY's 6MSJ and TSTL herself praised his technique. When paired with YTZ against XF, his techniques were described as 'Wondrous'. But every other time, he gets punked easily (esp that DYQ fight). I think he was the victim of 'Plot Elasticity'.

Easiest way for me to explain it would be that his external techniques were really top notch (e.g. with weapon, he could block many many stances of 6MSJ, pull fancy moves like re-direct the broken blade shards at DY, shift DCQ's attack, impress TSTL etc etc) but his weak internal put him at BIG disadvantages in many situations when faced with superior internal strength attacks. Kind of like mid-novel LHC, elite in some instances, crap in others.



If you ignore the adaptations and go by the novel ;

1. We get the incredible MRB (Murong family hype) at the start.

2. We hear of North QF and South Murong like they are some godly pair.

3. Bao Butong appears and spanks the Qingcheng guys like they were ants.

After reading all that, MRF appears and he is CRAP! What a disappointment!

[Western Eccentric]

Yeah totally agree with all of you..
At best his level around Pre LOCH "young" Greats but slighty weaker than End LOCH Guo Jing IMHO