Mo Yung F'uk and Chan Ga Lok

[Ken Cheng]

Yeah, I know...another Mo Yung F'uk topic. The thematic usage of this character fascinates me at the moment...

Perhaps the least popular of Jin Yong's protagonists was Chan Ga Lok of BOOK & SWORD: GRATITUDE & REVENGE. I barely know anything about the character or this story, but I gather from some of the remarks I read here that his unpopularity is due largely to his mistreatment of a woman who loved him for patriotic purposes...and that for his "sacrifice" of this woman, he still failed to achieve his goal of restoring the Ming Dynasty?

That sounds like Mo Yung F'uk to me. Mo Yung F'uk also spurned the love of a woman (Wong Yu Yin) in his pursuit of reviving a dead kingdom, and like Chan Ga Lok, Mo Yung F'uk failed in his goal.

As B&S: G&R was one of Jin Yong's first works and DGSD one of his last, I wonder if the Mo Yung F'uk character was, in some way, Jin Yong's own parody of Chan Ga Lok.

[Suet Seung]

You're telling me, you actually miss out on the horrible TVB adaptation of Legend of the Book & Sword that was made in 1987 (which is before that Oct. 1988 cutoff date of yours). Chan Ga Lok failed as a main hero for many reasons, not just because Princess Fragrance sacrificed her life. For me, JY set Chan Ga Lok up with all the resources to become a great leader of the Red Flower Society, but failed to become one. Though he depicted as an intelligent scholar, accomplished martial artist (cuz he got a good teachers), but the destined leader...he just sorta fell short in my eyes.

And for goodness sakes, how he could not tell the difference between a male and a female is beyond my comprehension. I know Gwok Jing didn't know WY was a female when she disguised herself as a beggar boy, but that's excusable. But for Chan Ga Lok not to know that Li Yuan Zhi is a girl disguised as a boy, okay, but to stupidly give up on a girl so easily without a fight is just plain stupid. I don't care if he's a gentleman or anything, but that's just stupid and wussy.

Mo Yung F'uk = Chan Ga Lok parody....I don't see it. I even like Mo Yung F'uk more than Chan Ka Lok.

[kidd]

And for goodness sakes, how he could not tell the difference between a male and a female is beyond my comprehension. I know Gwok Jing didn't know WY was a female when she disguised herself as a beggar boy, but that's excusable. But for Chan Ga Lok not to know that Li Yuan Zhi is a girl disguised as a boy, okay, but to stupidly give up on a girl so easily without a fight is just plain stupid. I don't care if he's a gentleman or anything, but that's just stupid and wussy.

Well, he thought Fok Ching Tung and in-disguised Lee Yuen Ji were in love with each other. I don't blame him for being a gentleman.

Btw, do you approve of Yu Yu Tung's constant pining for his 4th sister in-law and even trying to go between the loving couple once (when he was not in his most clear minded stat)? Yes, one couple is married and one is not, but, situation still the same. Chan Ga Lok thought Fok Ching Tung and Lee Yuen Ji were a loving couple and didn't want to be third party.

[Suet Seung]

Well, he thought Fok Ching Tung and in-disguised Lee Yuen Ji were in love with each other. I don't blame him for being a gentleman.

Btw, do you approve of Yu Yu Tung's constant pining for his 4th sister in-law and even trying to go between the loving couple once (when he was not in his most clear minded stat)? Yes, one couple is married and one is not, but, situation still the same. Chan Ga Lok thought Fok Ching Tung and Lee Yuen Ji were a loving couple and didn't want to be third party.

Would it shame Chan Ga Lok to just ask Fok Ching Tung directly instead of having a change of heart due to incorrect assumptions? Even if Lee Yuen Ji was a truly a guy and not a girl crossdressing, it would be smarter to ask what kind of relationship she had with someone instead of assuming things upon sight alone. He's a smart boy, he should seek hardcore evidence before making a decision which he probably later regretted. Ching Tung and Ga Lok were a perfect match, but I guess she was still smarter and more observant than him. He's just book smart.

Say Lee Yuen Ji was a guy, and Fok Ching Tung was still close to him, would it have to be a man-woman relationship between them? They could see each other as brother-sister and stupid Chan Ga Lok would still see a romantic relationship instead of a platonic one. Makes me think he didn't really love her, and started a rebound with Princess Fragrance because of her naivete yet heavenly beautiful trait.


No, I don't approve of Yu Yu Tung. He's a pathetic character. I don't know why Lee Yuen Ji liked him.

[Guo Xiang]

But for Chan Ga Lok not to know that Li Yuan Zhi is a girl disguised as a boy, okay, but to stupidly give up on a girl so easily without a fight is just plain stupid. I don't care if he's a gentleman or anything, but that's just stupid and wussy.

It's not quite just because of this. He simply made use of this incident/misunderstanding to get rid of Huo Qingtong. IIRC, in his own words later on during a moment of pondering, the real reason he didn't get together with Huo Qingtong was because he found her a threat to his male ego, where the man had to be the best and the woman the inferior. But Huo Qingtong was obviously not inferior to him...

That makes him look very petty as well.

[Suet Seung]

It's not quite just because of this. He simply made use of this incident/misunderstanding to get rid of Huo Qingtong. IIRC, in his own words later on during a moment of pondering, the real reason he didn't get together with Huo Qingtong was because he found her a threat to his male ego, where the man had to be the best and the woman the inferior. But Huo Qingtong was obviously not inferior to him...

That makes him look very petty as well.

Thanks GX. He still is a pathetic main protagonist.

[Ian Liew]

On the romance side he was also willing to "sell" Princess Fragrance to Qianlong in exchange for Qianlong's supporting role in his coup against the Qing. Serves him right that Qianlong reneged on the deal. On the objective side he refused to see people on merit, and only looked at "government-dogs" or "heroic freedom fighters". There were more than enough Qing officials in the story who deserved better than he treated them. I really don't like him.

[forgot password]

As B&S: G&R was one of Jin Yong's first works and DGSD one of his last, I wonder if the Mo Yung F'uk character was, in some way, Jin Yong's own parody of Chan Ga Lok.

Only JY knows if it was an intended parody, but these dudes in fact are pretty similar to each other in that they both care more about politics than romance, and can easily become jealous of people who're more handsome or better than themselves at a certain area that they're skillful at. Murong Fu got pissed off when Wang Yuyan praised Duan Yu's martial arts as being superior to his and Chen Jialuo was also unhappy about Huo Qingtong's topnotch military skills and Li Yuanzhi's good looks. As far as personality goes, both suck, but Murong Fu is still a much more interesting character though as at least he was going around kicking arses or getting his arse kicked rather than spending months moping over some girls.

[SkyWalker]

MRF & CJL share a few similar situations where they have to sacrifice their personal happiness to restore their dynasty but their personalities are completely different. MRF is a more driven, ambitious, and ruthless go getter, whereas CJL was more or less forced to be the leader of the Red Flower Society and his heart was never really in it. MRF wanted to be King but CJL just wanted to live a simple carefree life with his girl.

[Suzaku]

On the romance side he was also willing to "sell" Princess Fragrance to Qianlong in exchange for Qianlong's supporting role in his coup against the Qing. Serves him right that Qianlong reneged on the deal. On the objective side he refused to see people on merit, and only looked at "government-dogs" or "heroic freedom fighters". There were more than enough Qing officials in the story who deserved better than he treated them. I really don't like him.

Can you or someone else elaborate on the objective side "he refused to see people on merit? It's been a while since I read the book, so the details are foggy. (And I didn't read JY's newest edits.) But I don't see him as being too biased towards the "government dogs." (IMHO, the author was very stereotypical in the presentation of the Red Flower Heroes and the government dogs/officials. But I didn't see CJL as too biased.)

The only ones that came to mind were the four brothers that went to the Muslim camp and he humiliated them, but he was a remorseful later on when they were trapped by the wolves and he saw that they were upright heroes.

He saved Bai Zhen's life, and Zhang Zhao Zhong didn't have much merits to recognize.

There was a couple snarky comments he made to Qianlong and the practical joke they played on Wang WeiYang and his group.