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Thread: Murong Bo vs Guo Jing

  1. #21
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuNaR View Post
    GJ is a clutch fighter, hes never an easy match. but even with my GJ bias, i say MRB is probably better if they 1v1
    Mo Yung Bok is better most of the time, but it's not a sure thing. If Mo Yung Bok gets overconfident or careless for even a moment, I see him losing this. That's how small the margin is.

    If Mo Yung Bok brings his "A" game and doesn't let up for even a second, then he should be able to take it after a long, bitter struggle.

  2. #22
    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    l/r technique gives an advantage only yechniques, to counter it, just use the method YG came up with, uses inner power and compete directly with force.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

  3. #23
    Senior Member chibidaisuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Mo Yung Bok is better most of the time, but it's not a sure thing. If Mo Yung Bok gets overconfident or careless for even a moment, I see him losing this. That's how small the margin is.

    If Mo Yung Bok brings his "A" game and doesn't let up for even a second, then he should be able to take it after a long, bitter struggle.
    For me the gap would probably be a little bit bigger than that. In favour of MRB of course. But then this is based on my gut feeling.

  4. #24
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    QKDNY vs Star Shifting Technique would be like a match between Aikidoka. Both only counter attacking, and no one doing the attacking. They'd just stand there looking at each other.
    Maybe exchange insults to incite the other side into attacking first.

  5. #25
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword View Post
    l/r technique gives an advantage only yechniques, to counter it, just use the method YG came up with, uses inner power and compete directly with force.
    Yang Guo was not doing very well with his "counter".
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  6. #26
    Senior Member Snafu3721's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword View Post
    l/r technique gives an advantage only yechniques, to counter it, just use the method YG came up with, uses inner power and compete directly with force.
    That's a HUGE advantage! One that would definitely put GJ above MRB IMHO.

    I have mentioned before that people tend to disregard the power of the l/r technique. (I will say it again, I think JY royally screwed up when he created it and had never mentioned it again during subsequent battles against Great's caliber oppoents)

    When ZBT finally figured out in LOCH that he had learned L/R technique, he was 100% confident that he had surpassed HYS. Just based on the fact it would be like one HYS having to fight two ZBT's!

    And when GJ fought OYK on Peach blossom island after learning L/R, he beat OYK in a single stance and broke OYK's ribs by sending two simultaneous dragon palms. When just a little before that, GJ was still much inferior to OYK in terms of technique (fight that GJ lost when OYK used snake fist).

    That's why everytime I reach ROCH, I always think to myself... "How can GJ NOT be able to fend of the Mongolians mercs? He should be owning them left and right"

    Think about this scenario-- When GJ and GWM first clashed palms at the Hero's meet... why didn't GJ just use L/R technique and send out TWO dragon palms? One would be blocked by GWM, and the other would've broke his fricken ribs just like OYK! Or GJ could've used vacant fist to dissolve GWM's force like ZBT did at the end of ROCH, while simultaneously using dragon palm and smacking Goldie upside the head?

    Last example: XLN without L/R was far inferior to LMC. With L/R she was freaking out the Mongol Merc's including GWM. How can it be that GJ with at least same internal to the Greats, better stamina, vast 1st tier techniques and 9-yin be only marginally better than other Greats.
    Last edited by Snafu3721; 10-01-10 at 05:41 AM.

  7. #27
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    Do we know how L/R technique affects the power of your strikes? If it splits your energy, then a 50% Dragon Palm might just get you owned if they choose to clash head on with you.

    If we do some rough wuxia math, I don't think it'd be out of question for your technique to be reduced to 70-80% of it's actual efficiency if you use two seperate ones and the power to be reduced to 70-80%, and it adds up to only a 20-30% advantage.

    XLN was a very special case because it was through swordplay which did not require much inner strength anyway. I think any barehanded/inner strength driven art would suffer immensely compared to a sword art.

  8. #28
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    I would think Left/Right Technique does reduce power of each technique. However, the combined forces of both techniques (1 for each hand) is probably = using 1 technique w/o L/R Tech.

    However, being able to execute 2 techniques simultaneously is so shocking to your opponent, it outweighs the power reduction by a lot IMO.

    Speaking of which, L/R Tech wasn't used much in LOCH. Zhou Botong and Guo Jing only used it briefly a few times. It wasn't until ROCH that we saw more of this majestic art in action with Xiao Longnu vs the Mongolian mercenaries, and Zhou Botong vs Yang Guo.
    Last edited by PJ; 10-01-10 at 10:52 AM.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  9. #29
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    The thing I don't like about L/R is that I can't really envision what the skill entails. Martial arts includes body movements, not just the left and right arms. How does one simultaneously use a hard and soft art, when the soft art probably requires you to be on the back foot so to speak, ready to dodge and manipulate forces while the hard one requires you to constantly be advancing and attacking in order to keep the pressure up. The XLN swordplay makes sense to me, because she is just attacking in different spots with a sword, and the swordplay is supposed to complement itself anyway.

    I basically don't see how L/R is so much better than a 100% pure power blast, or a guy who is punching as fast as he can anyway. I see it useful for fending off multiple opponents, but fighting a guy of equal or stronger skill level I can't see it as being a huge advantage.

    Regarding the reduction in power, I can see it as pretty dangerous against similar/stronger opponents. Sometimes your technique is only threatening to me at 100% of it's power, if it is down to 80%, even if you're launching some other attack with your other hand, I can just break your one technique and go for a 100% blow and trade hits. Considering I'd be hitting you with more strength, it might be a good exchange for me.

  10. #30
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    The thing I don't like about L/R is that I can't really envision what the skill entails. Martial arts includes body movements, not just the left and right arms. How does one simultaneously use a hard and soft art, when the soft art probably requires you to be on the back foot so to speak, ready to dodge and manipulate forces while the hard one requires you to constantly be advancing and attacking in order to keep the pressure up. The XLN swordplay makes sense to me, because she is just attacking in different spots with a sword, and the swordplay is supposed to complement itself anyway.

    I basically don't see how L/R is so much better than a 100% pure power blast, or a guy who is punching as fast as he can anyway. I see it useful for fending off multiple opponents, but fighting a guy of equal or stronger skill level I can't see it as being a huge advantage.

    Regarding the reduction in power, I can see it as pretty dangerous against similar/stronger opponents. Sometimes your technique is only threatening to me at 100% of it's power, if it is down to 80%, even if you're launching some other attack with your other hand, I can just break your one technique and go for a 100% blow and trade hits. Considering I'd be hitting you with more strength, it might be a good exchange for me.
    That is part of my beef with L/R Technique as well. After all, if a technique relies on you using only 1 arm while the other arm and 2 legs is basically doing nothing (i.e. they dont need to be in a specific position to give the main arm some synergy), its not very optimised.

    e.g. How are you going to throw a jab and a roundhouse at the same time? It would make both 'unoptimised'.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  11. #31
    Senior Member Snafu3721's Avatar
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    I have always believed that L/R technique allowed it's user to fully utilize two separate techniques but at full power and 100% utility. So if GJ unleashed 2 dragon palms, it would be 2 full powered dragon palms (not two diminished 80% palm); whereas most people can only unleash one stance at a time with 100% utility. A good example would be XF's triple dragon palm against DCJ-- XF had to launch one palm, then chase it to follow up with subsequent palms. However, assuming GJ knew how to throw LDA's and also combine the palm blasts like XF did, I believe he theoretically can throw TWO palms simultaneously and would be able to merge the separate blasts together to form something with 2x the palm power.

    Back to the XLN example- The L/R allowed her to use the complete Jade Maiden swordplay by herself, which she obviously couldn't do before. If the L/R isn't such a special technique, then anyone should be able to swing 2 swords around with different hands and accomplish the same feats XLN did. Again, I believe the magic of L/R lies in the UTILIZATION of internal chi and thought process. It's allow it's users to double output that a normal people can't. I used a JRPG example in another thread before where I compared the L/R technique to the Final Fantasy ability of double magic cast.

    @Tape
    If the L/R has no advantage against an opponent of equal strength, then why would ZBT conclusively say that he is superior to HYS because he mastered this technique on Peach Blossom island? At the time, ZBT didn't know his internal improved by accident due to 9-yin. So he basically assumed that he has surpassed someone, who at one point was better than him at technique AND internal, based on just learning L/R!

    @CC
    I don't know how to picture the L/R realistically myself. I mean, I can't really imagine someone capable of executing 2 stances at the same time if just one of the stances already required the user to jump into the air and spin with both arms out. But I figured, AT & CZ swordplay couldn't possibly have been invented as one armed techniques-- so if XLN can somehow magically use L/R to slash with 2 swords as if it's two different people, then so be it.

    That's why I honestly think JY didn't fully evaluate the potential of the L/R... if it truly is as he advertised, then GJ shouldn't be just "on par" with the Greats.
    Last edited by Snafu3721; 10-01-10 at 01:54 PM.

  12. #32
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    @tape & @CC: Not all martial arts can be combined through L/R Tech.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    imo, out of 100 fights, GJ wins 75-80 of the fights, with his uber 9 Yin Dragon Palms, L/R Technique, Vacant Fist and youth.

    the only times he would lose is if he wanted to make his father-in-law proud and compete finger LDA technique (Divine Finger Flick) with MRB which would end in epic fail for GJ.

  14. #34
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I can swallow Left/Right Hand Technique a lot easier than I can swallow Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword theories.

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    L/R no doubt gives advantages, but my problem is more with the concept than the actual benefits shown in the novel. I don't see how that technique doesn't reduce your power drastically, and how techniques are applied together in the first place. Hardly any elite techniques can be used with one arm with no body movements, and I think that is more the essence of a given technique and not just what your hands/arms are doing. Is it even possible in terms of neigong to have your qi performing yin here and yang there, and retracting here and sending our max power there etc?

    With regards to L/R shown in the novel, ZBT was surely not less than 80-90% of Huang Yaoshi, yet L/R doesn't allow him to completely dominate them. It was said that when fighting QQR he gained an advantage when he used L/R and was able to defeat him, but still could not kill him. In ROCH, considering Huang Yaoshi/Yideng matched GWM/YG respectably, ZBT should beat all of them handily, but that is not the case. I think this means L/R definitely does not allow you to launch two separate techniques at 100% power, or else he would be quite the dominating powerhouse.

  16. #36
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    I always thought the idea of using some Yin soft technique for defense and some Yang hard technique for offense like ZBT did with Vacant Fists and Demon Subduing Fists as pretty silly. So if someone like GWM is pounding you with both palms and fists with all his might, somehow you're able to just punch both his palms with your one fist repeatedly while attacking with the other fist?

    YG has shown with the necessity of his sleeve that having one arm (along with XF getting injured when he only used one arm) that you can't block/use one arm with the same efficiency as two arms. The power of the technique HAS to be dramatically reduced due to limitation on which variations you can use, and likely the total power output of it also.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Snafu3721's Avatar
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    @Tape

    I hear what you're saying. I also agreed that I can't truly visualize how L/R truly works in real life. But in the novel, the way JY explains the L/R, we see that GJ indeed can throw two dragon palms after learning the technique whereas he couldn' before. And XLN magically goes from sub LMC to sub GWM.

    Also with regards to the chi utilization, I still believe it's 100% per stance and not a reduced fraction. When GJ was on Peach Blossom and was listening to the musical duel between HYS, H7G, and OYF... he basically was breathing differently with each nostril and sending different flows of chi in his body. He was making one side of his body hot and the other side cold and splitting his body as if it was two. I'm sure GJ can use a Yin and Yang technique simultaneously.

    And based on the fight between HeZuDao in HSDS, you can see that even the 3 saints can divide his energy into Yin and Yang even though he hasn't perfected the L/R yet:

    He ZuDao used his both palms to meet up with Wei's palms. He divided his energy into 2 sorts, Ying and Yang. Wei felt that the palm that aimed for his face was empty and hollow, the other palm felt it hit an iron brick wall. Wei TianWang knew this wasn't good and he felt an enormous energy coming towards him and pushing him out of the pavilion.
    IMHO if Yi-Deng had L/R... he wouldn't have to compete with GWM in terms of internal. He would send one 1-yang finger to block the elephant prana and another one at GWM's head!

  18. #38
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    I'm cool with L/R technique being applicable for swords, since even a casual swing and cut flesh. So you don't need to worry too much swinging hard.
    And the Jade Maiden style was made for 2 complimentary swords. It's power output is the same so long as you have 2 swords working at once, which is what XLN managed with L/R.

    But with unarmed combat, the stance is crucial to make the strike work. And stances usually favour one arm attacking at a time. One leg forward one leg back etc. When you launch two techniques simultaneously, how does it fit?

  19. #39
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Is L/R Tech any more unbelievable than being able to shift anyone's any move back to himself? The concept sounds nice, but the explanation of how it works is so vague (Shifting North Star technique).
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Energy attacks yeah. Physical attacks, no. Unless it's about redirecting the energy of the physical attack back, not grab their arm and make them puch themself.

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