Warning: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in ..../includes/class_bbcode.php on line 2958
(Mis-)Assessing Fighters' Level based on feats - Page 2
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 55

Thread: (Mis-)Assessing Fighters' Level based on feats

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    4 seasons in 1 day
    Posts
    1,138

    Default

    Yeah, but what if DGSD soldiers are better trained than LOCH soldiers, had better weapons and armour etc.

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,451

    Default

    Just like how Xiao Feng's tiger must have been a special ninja tiger ;0
    Reverend Rongku prepared himself.

    Suddenly, he toss his hands and screamed: "I am not human! I am an animal!"

    The crowd startled at such a bizarre beginning to the story.

  3. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    Yeah, but what if DGSD soldiers are better trained than LOCH soldiers, had better weapons and armour etc.
    yeh this i would like to see a list of advantages/disadvantages of different armies out through the different novels...


    dont u guys find it weird if ur a good fighter starting out then enlist into the army as a foot soldier then if ur really good you get up the ranks in the army...where fame and glory can be achieved, then again fighting within the army u lose that advantage of fighting 1on1 fights, instead ur focus on fightin in group or formations...


    i think i prefer to be a royal guard in wuxia...do royal guards get castrated like eunuchs?

  4. #24
    Senior Member forgot password's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    449

    Default

    Lots of ppl regard Dugu Qiubai as a Warrior God b/c JY stated that this dude never met an opponent who was able to take more than 3 stances executed by him.

    I believe that it's most likely an incorrect estimation of Dugu's level in martial arts as A'Er, Zhao Min's 2nd lackey, was also said to have rarely met a foe who could withstand 3 stances of his.

    在他双掌之下,极少有人接得住三招
    Under his 2 palms, very few people had been able to take 3 stances

  5. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hua Shan
    Posts
    188

    Default

    While few people could withstand A'Er, none could take 3 stances from Dugu Qiubai.
    And even if Dugu's competition were weak, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is weak. Warren Moon played QB in the Canadian Football League, where the level of competition is generally considered to be weaker than in the NFL. When he switched to the NFL, he had a Hall of Fame career. Likewise, I think Dugu Qiubai would be in the top echelon of fighters (if not the best) no matter where you transplant him.

  6. #26
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    18,367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey View Post
    Just like how Xiao Feng's tiger must have been a special ninja tiger ;0
    what jy didn't tell us is that tiger ate some fancy thousand year ginseng that made him 3000% stronger than normal tigers.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  7. #27
    Senior Member athlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    KL
    Posts
    724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    what jy didn't tell us is that tiger ate some fancy thousand year ginseng that made him 3000% stronger than normal tigers.
    The tiger's daily diet was actually ginseng, lingzhi, snake gallbladers (ala YG) plus toads, centipede and squirrels similiar to what DY ate
    Quote Originally Posted by remixedasian View Post
    6: Duan Yu is the greatest martial artist of all time

  8. #28
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    22,579

    Default

    Who are we kidding.

    We all know that tigers only eat Kellogg's Frosted Flakes.


  9. #29
    Senior Member forgot password's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remixedasian View Post
    While few people could withstand A'Er, none could take 3 stances from Dugu Qiubai.
    And even if Dugu's competition were weak, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is weak. Warren Moon played QB in the Canadian Football League, where the level of competition is generally considered to be weaker than in the NFL. When he switched to the NFL, he had a Hall of Fame career. Likewise, I think Dugu Qiubai would be in the top echelon of fighters (if not the best) no matter where you transplant him.
    (1) A'Er's feat was asymptotic Dugu's feat
    (2) A'Er was a scrub during the time of Yitian Tulong
    (3) Dongfang beat the crap out of Linghu Chong and co
    (4) Dongfang beat the crap out of Ren Woxing and co
    (5) Dugu would climax upon meeting Ren Woxing
    (6) Dugu was not capable of energy-sword shooting
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Conclusion: Dugu is a strong dude, but not yet reached the level of Xiaoyao School's 3 Oldies.

  10. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hua Shan
    Posts
    188

    Default

    I'm not really sure what you mean by 1 and 2, but are you suggesting that DGQB is around A'Er's level?
    3: FQY said that LHC would need around 20 years to hang with the big kids in Wulin. I think LHC with 20 years of DG9J would smack the effeminacy out of Dongfang Bubai. (Probably wouldn't need anywhere near that long) LHC thought he couldn't handle LZP, but it turns out he pretty handily beat YBQ (who had been using Bixie Jian roughly the same amount of time as LHC had DG9J) If LHC had as much practice with DG9J as DFBB had with KHBD, I'm convinced LHC would win. LHC can always study KHBD's move-set.
    4: Yup. DFBB destroys RWX.
    5: You really enjoy this pun don't you? :|
    My interpretation: DGQB is reincarnated. As an infant, he would be pleased to meet RWX.
    6: Duan Yu is the greatest martial artist of all time since he shoots laser beams.

    Xiaoyao's level is already debatable. How do your 6 points lead to this conclusion?

  11. #31
    Senior Member forgot password's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remixedasian View Post
    I'm not really sure what you mean by 1 and 2, but are you suggesting that DGQB is around A'Er's level?
    3: FQY said that LHC would need around 20 years to hang with the big kids in Wulin. I think LHC with 20 years of DG9J would smack the effeminacy out of Dongfang Bubai. (Probably wouldn't need anywhere near that long) LHC thought he couldn't handle LZP, but it turns out he pretty handily beat YBQ (who had been using Bixie Jian roughly the same amount of time as LHC had DG9J) If LHC had as much practice with DG9J as DFBB had with KHBD, I'm convinced LHC would win. LHC can always study KHBD's move-set.
    4: Yup. DFBB destroys RWX.
    5: You really enjoy this pun don't you? :|
    My interpretation: DGQB is reincarnated. As an infant, he would be pleased to meet RWX.
    6: Duan Yu is the greatest martial artist of all time since he shoots laser beams.

    Xiaoyao's level is already debatable. How do your 6 points lead to this conclusion?
    With (1) and (2), I want to say that the 'never met anyone who could take 3 stances' description is almost worthless, as a lowly scrub like A'Er was nearly able to achieve that feat.
    Regarding (3), what you think doesn't really matter as you're just a reader like me. I temporarily agree w/ your argument, but I'll check the novel again and get back to this point later.
    (5) - I do, because it's the cornerstone of the 'Dugu is not so good' theorem.
    (6) - Duan Yu has nothing to do here. What I want to say is that Dugu's internal energy was below that of a Xiaoyao School's Oldie' who was said to have reached the maximum level in long-distance energy shooting.

  12. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by forgot password View Post
    (6) - Duan Yu has nothing to do here. What I want to say is that Dugu's internal energy was below that of a Xiaoyao School's Oldie' who was said to have reached the maximum level in long-distance energy shooting.
    All that quote implies is that Ren Woxing might have been at the upper level of the foes he's met or that Ren Woxing's understanding of martial arts is quite high and he would be extremely pleased to meet him. Zhang Sanfeng is considered the best martial artist in the JY canon, but he is undoubtedly below many in DGSD. Taking that quote out of context we would assume that ZSF is the strongest.

    Consider that Shi Potian, Sweeper, and even Zhang Wuji to an extant had nobody even close to their levels. They would be extremely pleased to meet someone even 30% of their level, because they've never encountered it before and it would at least be more of a challenge than the fights they've been in before. What if Ren Woxing was only 20% of Dugu's level, but the next person in the era was only 10%? He would be extremely pleased to meet him. It's not that farfetched, considering the Greats in LOCH (minus Guo Jing) are like 8-10x stronger than everyone else.

  13. #33
    Senior Member athlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    KL
    Posts
    724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    All that quote implies is that Ren Woxing might have been at the upper level of the foes he's met or that Ren Woxing's understanding of martial arts is quite high and he would be extremely pleased to meet him. Zhang Sanfeng is considered the best martial artist in the JY canon, but he is undoubtedly below many in DGSD. Taking that quote out of context we would assume that ZSF is the strongest.

    Consider that Shi Potian, Sweeper, and even Zhang Wuji to an extant had nobody even close to their levels. They would be extremely pleased to meet someone even 30% of their level, because they've never encountered it before and it would at least be more of a challenge than the fights they've been in before. What if Ren Woxing was only 20% of Dugu's level, but the next person in the era was only 10%? He would be extremely pleased to meet him. It's not that farfetched, considering the Greats in LOCH (minus Guo Jing) are like 8-10x stronger than everyone else.
    In terms of gaming, a level 10 character would feel no difference when fighting a level 1 or level 2 character. Or in terms of the more popular online games at this moment, a level 80 character in WOW would feel little difference or difficulty when fighting a level 8 or level 16 character. Probably only those above level 60 (70-80%) would put up a fight against a level 80 character.

    6: Duan Yu is the greatest martial artist of all time
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by remixedasian View Post
    6: Duan Yu is the greatest martial artist of all time

  14. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    4 seasons in 1 day
    Posts
    1,138

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by athlee View Post
    In terms of gaming, a level 10 character would feel no difference when fighting a level 1 or level 2 character. Or in terms of the more popular online games at this moment, a level 80 character in WOW would feel little difference or difficulty when fighting a level 8 or level 16 character. Probably only those above level 60 (70-80%) would put up a fight against a level 80 character.



    +1

    But a level 100 character with 70 points in sword theory, can still be impressed by a level 60 character with 50 points in sword theory.

    Though I don't think it's the correct way to look at it. I think DGQB would be impressed by RWX's comprehension of sword art, instead of RWX as a fighter. Since RWX brought out the best in DG9J, that's how I would see it. A DG9J practitioner would be able to utilise more profound strokes against a competent opponent than not.
    Like a chess grand master would not be able to use his favourite plays and traps because his opponent is not advanced enough to see the move the trap is baiting.

    If you play Street Fighter 3, there are parry traps that are at the tier level of skill. But it's useless against a scrub because they never parry.
    Then, there's just appreciating a piece of art. Even if you could draw alot better than Da Vinci, doesn't mean you can't appreciate his work.

  15. #35
    Senior Member athlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    KL
    Posts
    724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    But a level 100 character with 70 points in sword theory, can still be impressed by a level 60 character with 50 points in sword theory.

    Though I don't think it's the correct way to look at it. I think DGQB would be impressed by RWX's comprehension of sword art, instead of RWX as a fighter. Since RWX brought out the best in DG9J, that's how I would see it. A DG9J practitioner would be able to utilise more profound strokes against a competent opponent than not.
    Like a chess grand master would not be able to use his favourite plays and traps because his opponent is not advanced enough to see the move the trap is baiting.

    If you play Street Fighter 3, there are parry traps that are at the tier level of skill. But it's useless against a scrub because they never parry.
    Then, there's just appreciating a piece of art. Even if you could draw alot better than Da Vinci, doesn't mean you can't appreciate his work.
    That's still like 60+% as opposed to tape's 10-20%.
    Quote Originally Posted by remixedasian View Post
    6: Duan Yu is the greatest martial artist of all time

  16. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    4 seasons in 1 day
    Posts
    1,138

    Default

    It leaves them with a hypothetical 20 point difference in skill. And again, I don't think that's how it ought to be viewed. I've already described how I think it should be treated in the second half of my post.

  17. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by athlee View Post
    That's still like 60+% as opposed to tape's 10-20%.
    But you are using video game analogies which are not completely applicable. Hong Qigong and Ouyang Feng wanted to meet the Five Clown's master because they were impressed by their internal energy cultivation. They are at like 5% of their skill level, and they can impress a Great in some aspect or another.

  18. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,580

    Default

    I also agree wit Banh Mi's example. In many fighting games (which should be more applicable), certain techniques are considered advanced to casual gamers, but extremely basic to good players. If you lack these techniques, it's incredibly boring to play you as someone very good. If you know these techniques, even if you have no chance in beating me, I would still find it much more enjoyable. I might be able to kill you without taking any damage, but it would still make me happy.

  19. #39
    Senior Member athlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    KL
    Posts
    724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    I also agree wit Banh Mi's example. In many fighting games (which should be more applicable), certain techniques are considered advanced to casual gamers, but extremely basic to good players. If you lack these techniques, it's incredibly boring to play you as someone very good. If you know these techniques, even if you have no chance in beating me, I would still find it much more enjoyable. I might be able to kill you without taking any damage, but it would still make me happy.
    Knowing or not knowing techniques does not necessarily mean a person is good. I used to play Street Fighter and I cannot, I repeat, cannot use any of the special moves, including fireball (I finally learned and executed it when I played it on playstation ) but I still trash nearly everyone in the arcade by using simple hit and run tactic. Note: I am nowhere near professionals that you see on youtube

    As for DGQB enjoying RWX's techniques, that would mean that RWX will have to be somewhere close to his level. If not, how could RWX survive long enough to exhibit his techniques for DGQB to enjoy? Or is it that DGQB would enjoy using 5 moves as opposed to the standard 3?
    Quote Originally Posted by remixedasian View Post
    6: Duan Yu is the greatest martial artist of all time

  20. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by athlee View Post
    Knowing or not knowing techniques does not necessarily mean a person is good. I used to play Street Fighter and I cannot, I repeat, cannot use any of the special moves, including fireball (I finally learned and executed it when I played it on playstation ) but I still trash nearly everyone in the arcade by using simple hit and run tactic. Note: I am nowhere near professionals that you see on youtube

    As for DGQB enjoying RWX's techniques, that would mean that RWX will have to be somewhere close to his level. If not, how could RWX survive long enough to exhibit his techniques for DGQB to enjoy? Or is it that DGQB would enjoy using 5 moves as opposed to the standard 3?
    I played Marvel vs Capcom 2 semi-competitively, as in I traveled to play tournaments but did it mainly for fun as I didn't have a very good chance in winning the tournament, but I definitely had a chance in winning a single match or best out of 3 even against the best in the world. I used to have some youtube videos up

    But to use that game as an analogy, knowing some advanced tactics, but performing them at a low level, can allow you to thrash 95% of the people playing the game. This would be analogous to say Yu Canghai, who is considered a top tier martial arts experts because he has access to advanced techniques and partly due to the general low level of the wulin at the time. This is like somebody that can do a fireball. Now move onto Ren Woxing who can thrash him, because not only can he do a fireball, he knows when to do a fireball and what doing a fireball implies, and how it leaves you open to attack and what areas you cover from attack. This makes him much more enjoyable to fight against, because strategy now comes into account. This still does not make Ren Woxing high level (as seen by Dongfong Bubai), it just means he is at a high enough level where you can now enjoy strategy in the game. I think there's a big difference in fighting "enjoyability" between beating someone by just thrusting your sword out, or by beating someone by actually having to think of where to thrust your sword to, or by actually having to thrust once to fake them out and thrust somewhere else later, and so on and so forth. One does not have to be on similar levels to enjoy a game/fight with someone -- there just has to be a certain level of competence. In some pursuits that level of competence (say running/sprinting) could be very small, where even if you were 95% as fast as someone, that in actuality means you had no chance in hell of ever beating him and thus no fun to race against while in other pursuits like these fighting games, you could have 20% of someone's knowledge and execution but still be enjoyable to play against due to some random surprise factors or just for the love of the activity.

    I remember for a while, before there really were online communities for video games, people that played competitively faced a very Dugu-esque problem. You had to go to the arcade to play it, but if there was nobody good to play against, you were out of luck and were stuck playing endless waves of people doing the same random things over and over again and you beating them in every which way possible, and it gets boring after a while. You suddenly play against someone who is aware of positioning and timing, and can actually execute infinite combos given the chance, and boy are you delighted. You might beat this person every single time, with them not having a real chance of victory, but you would still be really happy to play them.
    Last edited by tape; 12-06-10 at 09:49 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-30-10, 09:44 AM
  2. Would Great level fighters benefit from QKDNY ?
    By tape in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-22-10, 06:06 AM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-16-08, 11:10 PM
  4. Replies: 54
    Last Post: 08-06-05, 06:13 AM
  5. Comparisons between mid/low-level fighters in LOCH.
    By Ken Cheng in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-16-04, 11:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •