Revisiting DOMD

[kidd]

As for Ah Ke, she's probably the one which, plot-wise, paints WXB in a really bad light. Up to then, and even after then, Ah Ke had nothing but resentment and dislike for WXB. Through no fault of her own, she was played as a pawn in a game by her teacher, and although WXB was very fond of her, he never did respect her at all, and there was absolutely no reason why she would want to give a guy like him a chance after all they've been through. Again, due to her pregnancy, she lost everything, and although she was eventually, after having no one else to turn to, touched that WXB still adored her after so long despite how much she tried to hurt him, it doesn't change the fact that WXB was the one who cost her everything, and put her in a position where she had nowhere else to go other than to him. WXB may have been a nice guy at heart, but the act he committed which led to his getting the girl of his dreams (despite him probably never planning it and intending it to turn out the way it did) was in the league of some of the most malicious, manipulative and despicable acts committed by villains in wuxia.

100% agree with this. I always feel bad for Ah Ke in this matter. 'Hou ng dai'.

So yes, for me, the removal of that brothel scene, or even just the removal of Ah Ke from there, and the insertion of another plot device which drew them together, would make WXB an infinitely more likeable person to me. Having said that, as he is I do like him a lot anyway.. despite that blemish on his resume.

The brothel scene puts a very big blemish on him in my book.

[Ken Cheng]

The brothel scene puts a very big blemish on him in my book.

It was the deal-breaker, really. All the other skullduggery that Wai Siu Bo was involved in the story, readers/viewers can sort of "wink and nod" at and maybe rationalize. *That* one, though, was impossible to ignore or rationalize.

[smurf120]

I've seen only the first episode so far, so it's too early to tell, but...much more happened in the first episode than I expected. The part that confuses me a bit was that some documents related to the Ming Dynasty (belonging to the Heaven and Earth Society) were found inside the brothel of Wai Siu Bo's mother...in *her* pillowcase, in fact. Not sure what that's all about (except that it's Siu Bo's ticket to Beijing).

Is Wai Siu Bo's mother involved with the Heaven and Earth Society rebels in some way? Maybe she's harbored them.

My summary from very very vague memory of what happened in the 80's adaptation and how it ties to the book...

The "documents" were actually part of a book published by the Jiang family patriarch (you may recall the Haunted House, Third Mistress, and Shang'er). His son was an angry teen Ming loyalist and wrote some anti-Qing essays, then died of sickness quite young. In grief, his father published the writings along with other history documents, not realizing some of the information would be grounds for treason. Unfortunately it was published before he caught the mistake so he spent a fortune retrieving the copies. It was minor details like using Ming dates instead of Qing dates but served Obei's witchhunt perfectly.

WXB's mother got a copy from one of her suitors as payment. Since she was illiterate and really had no use for a book, she used it as pillow stuffing and apparently forgot about it. The pimp(?) was former magistrate so he knew the significance of the copy, turned it into to Obei for a reward, got all the male members of the Jiang family arrested/beheaded.

[tweety365]

Jing Yong went back and revised his novels so many times, but he didn't change the one scene in DOMD that would vastly improve the character of the main protagonist. I totally understand that JY wanted an antihero and readers/viewers can rationalize much of his actions. However, there is no way to defend such a criminal act.

[Ken Cheng]

My summary from very very vague memory of what happened in the 80's adaptation and how it ties to the book...

The "documents" were actually part of a book published by the Jiang family patriarch (you may recall the Haunted House, Third Mistress, and Shang'er). His son was an angry teen Ming loyalist and wrote some anti-Qing essays, then died of sickness quite young. In grief, his father published the writings along with other history documents, not realizing some of the information would be grounds for treason. Unfortunately it was published before he caught the mistake so he spent a fortune retrieving the copies. It was minor details like using Ming dates instead of Qing dates but served Obei's witchhunt perfectly.

WXB's mother got a copy from one of her suitors as payment. Since she was illiterate and really had no use for a book, she used it as pillow stuffing and apparently forgot about it. The pimp(?) was former magistrate so he knew the significance of the copy, turned it into to Obei for a reward, got all the male members of the Jiang family arrested/beheaded.

That explains much. I should probably watch the series with English subtitles. It's not that I can't understand the Cantonese (my first language), but there was so much yelling between the characters in the first episode that I didn't know what they were saying to each other sometimes.

[kidd]

It was the deal-breaker, really. All the other skullduggery that Wai Siu Bo was involved in the story, readers/viewers can sort of "wink and nod" at and maybe rationalize. *That* one, though, was impossible to ignore or rationalize.

I can rationalise his action. He grew up in a brothel. So, sex to him is not a taboo. He probably saw all kind of sexual act when he was there. But, being able to rationalise it does not make it less offensive when I see the misfortune/pain he caused his victims by this act, specifically Ah Ke and I don't even like Ah Ke that much.

Even though I can rationalised his action, but, emotionally, I cannot accept it. WXB showing no remorse for it doesn't help either.

Just curious. How did Zheng Rou react to this rape?

In the TV series, we only see Ah Ke being deeply affected by it. Zheng Rou and the Dragon Lord's wife seem ok.

[Ken Cheng]

I can rationalise his action. He grew up in a brothel. So, sex to him is not a taboo. He probably saw all kind of sexual act when he was there.

He grew up in a brothel, and illicit sex was no mystery to him. Wai Siu Bo, however, knew that *rape* was wrong. The prostitutes at the brothel weren't raped; they were paid for their, um, services and did their job.

Rape is a whole different set of circumstances, and Wai Siu Bo knew the difference.

[Ian Liew]

Just curious. How did Zheng Rou react to this rape?

In the TV series, we only see Ah Ke being deeply affected by it. Zheng Rou and the Dragon Lord's wife seem ok.

My understanding was that Zeng Rou was quite smitten by WXB already and was head over heels in love with him ever since that gambling scene, and later on when he saved her family. She probably wouldn't mind, although she took great offense (in the 2008 series) when WXB threatened to lock Ah Ke up for not submitting to him after the rape. It was only when Zeng Rou and one other (can't remember, either Fang Yi or Mu Jianping probably, since Shuang Er was totally devoted) expressed disappointment in him that he consented to let Ah Ke go free.

Su Quan was really cool and calm about the whole thing, and probably just treated it as a one night stand, and conceded that he won that advantage that round, with threats of a next round or something, I guess. It wasn't until she realised she was pregnant later that it started to cause her distress.

[kidd]

My understanding was that Zeng Rou was quite smitten by WXB already and was head over heels in love with him ever since that gambling scene, and later on when he saved her family. She probably wouldn't mind, although she took great offense (in the 2008 series) when WXB threatened to lock Ah Ke up for not submitting to him after the rape. It was only when Zeng Rou and one other (can't remember, either Fang Yi or Mu Jianping probably, since Shuang Er was totally devoted) expressed disappointment in him that he consented to let Ah Ke go free.

This is what I like about Zheng Rou. Although she was smitten by WXB and head over heels in love with him, she's not blinded by love. She will point out to WXB if she felt he did something dishonorable. DOMD98 also show this, but, it's not about Ah Ke's case. It's about something else.

[tweety365]

Zheng Rou in the 80s adaptation also reprimanded WXB. Hence he let Ah Ke go with that dude she liked.

Yet nobody mentioned anything about the rape . Like nothing happened

[smurf120]

Watched the 80s version as a child so nothing really connected with me in terms of sex, especially rape, since they were laughing, jumping around, and fully clothed during the Giant Bed scene. I was actually really confused when Su Quan and Ah Ke got pregnant.

[Ken Cheng]

One thing I must say about DOMD '84 compared to other Jin Yong adaptations of the era: it's way more "talky" than the adaptations of the other stories. Because of the relative lack of martial arts action, there is much more talk.

The dialog is a bit schizo: on the one hand, you have the street doggerel of the uneducated Wai Siu Bo, and at the other extreme, you have the highly mannered speech of Emperor K'ang Hsi and his mandarins.

[Ken Cheng]

One thing that's becoming quickly apparent: being the Emperor of China wasn't much fun. K'ang Hsi had to deal with many trade-offs and political balances when it came to his personnel. We saw this first with Obai, and later again with Wai Siu Bo.

Leaders of large groups (even smaller ones) have to deal with this kind of b.s. all the time.

[Ian Liew]

One thing that's becoming quickly apparent: being the Emperor of China wasn't much fun. K'ang Hsi had to deal with many trade-offs and political balances when it came to his personnel. We saw this first with Obai, and later again with Wai Siu Bo.

Leaders of large groups (even smaller ones) have to deal with this kind of b.s. all the time.

Being a good and responsible Emperor wasn't much fun for sure - and Kangxi is generally recognised as one of the best. The series is really talky but that's a good thing as the two leads really shine. I'm not sure if they modified the script or not - the ending is not the same as the one in DOMD 2008 - but the ending works very well, and all the extra talking really endeared the two chaps to me a lot.

Really rare to see you refer to someone by their Mandarin name, btw =)

[CFT]

Really rare to see you refer to someone by their Mandarin name, btw =)

He's going over to the dark side!

[Ken Cheng]

Being a good and responsible Emperor wasn't much fun for sure - and Kangxi is generally recognised as one of the best. The series is really talky but that's a good thing as the two leads really shine. I'm not sure if they modified the script or not - the ending is not the same as the one in DOMD 2008 - but the ending works very well, and all the extra talking really endeared the two chaps to me a lot.

K'ang Hsi's frustration was quite palpable. On the one hand, he was the sovereign of China, and should have had absolute authority to rule the country as he saw fit. On the other hand, in realpolitik terms, he really couldn't offend the Four Regents or the other mandarins who were conspiring with Obai. K'ang Hsi probably *wished* he could have ordered their executions (or at least their banishments/imprisonments), but things weren't so simple.

Luckily for him, he had this monkey wrench called "Wai Siu Bo."

Really rare to see you refer to someone by their Mandarin name, btw =)

There's a story behind that (there always is).

Many, many years ago, when I first watched DOMD '84, I grew curious about this Chinese emperor "Hong Hei," whom I was told was a real historical person and one of the greatest rulers in Chinese history. I consulted the ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA and, naturally, came up empty in my search. Undeterred, I took a different route, looking through the entry, "History of China" instead of "Hong Hei" (even as a kid, I was a research junkie). I finally got it narrowed down to the Emperor K'ang Hsi of the Qing Dynasty, whose life events generally paralleled those of the character in DOMD.

Because that was the first Romanized spelling I ever saw of the name, it stuck.

[smurf120]

Emperor K'ang Hsi (or Kangxi as I normally refer to him) was really an amazing figure as since he became king at such a young age but was able to go head to head with his regents, stop the Revolt of the Three Feudatories, negotiate Russian treaty, made peace (conquered) Tibet and Mongolia, and pwned Taiwan. I feel like he really did have a WXB running his errands!

[Ken Cheng]

Four episodes in, I can say that I am enjoying this, but it's certainly not "conventional" wuxia in the sense that DGSD, LOCH, ROCH, or HSDS are. Through four episodes, there have been only a handful of fight scenes, and these were not remarkable or memorable in any way.

The Qing politics are somewhat interesting, but will they sustain my interest through another thirty-six episodes?

[Ian Liew]

Yea, K'ang Hsi was the usual way of referring to him before Hanyu Pinyin became all the rage. It's like Lin Chin Hsia and Teresa Teng (I don't think I ever heard anyone refer to her as Teresa Deng). Maybe because due to China's closed-to-the-world attitude a lot of Chinese culture was marketed to the West in romanised form through Taiwan, and they didn't use Hanyu Pinyin in their spelling.

Ken, your interest will be sustained easily through the remaining 36 episodes. The two main leads are just so charismatic and complement each other so well that the plot just flows easily. Add in a killer soundtrack and a setting (one of only two TV settings, the other being the Bund era setting) which never looks dated, it'll entertain you all the way to the end, even when the jokes stop and the tears come.

[Ken Cheng]

Yea, K'ang Hsi was the usual way of referring to him before Hanyu Pinyin became all the rage. It's like Lin Chin Hsia and Teresa Teng (I don't think I ever heard anyone refer to her as Teresa Deng). Maybe because due to China's closed-to-the-world attitude a lot of Chinese culture was marketed to the West in romanised form through Taiwan, and they didn't use Hanyu Pinyin in their spelling.

Ken, your interest will be sustained easily through the remaining 36 episodes. The two main leads are just so charismatic and complement each other so well that the plot just flows easily. Add in a killer soundtrack and a setting (one of only two TV settings, the other being the Bund era setting) which never looks dated, it'll entertain you all the way to the end, even when the jokes stop and the tears come.

I think the series never lost its sense of humor, even later on when things got more serious. To the end, Wai Siu Bo was hilarious.

I'm one week in and things are ramping up. I remember from my original viewing back in the Eighties that the Obai episodes were my favorite, so I hope it's not downhill from here.

Although I maintain the general opinion that Qing-era fashions are oogley, the mandarins' uniforms are growing on me (not literally, PJ). I like the intricate logos they wear on their uniform chests. K'ang Hsi's emperor's robe is also quite ornate.

DOMD '84 has some amusing casting choices considering that ROCH '83 was broadcast less than a year earlier: Andy Lau (Yeung Gor in ROCH '83) is K'ang Hsi, but the actor who played Chiu Tze Ging in ROCH '83 is now one of K'ang Hsi's most loyal and trusted mandarins. Lui Yau Wai, who played Lee Mok Sau in ROCH '83, is the emperor's doting adoptive mother in DOMD '84.

It's amusing to see "Yeung Gor's" hated enemies in the roles of his trusted and beloved allies this time around.