Revisiting DOMD

[Ian Liew]

Lui Yau Wai's vicious Lei Mok Sau role may not be as far removed from her as you think... =)

Kam Kok Wai's .. Takatna(sp?) is one of the few and rare officials in DOMD who, while loyal to Kangxi, does not really have any relationship with Wei Xiao Bao. On one had it makes him less friendly, on the other it makes him more real.

[Doc Kwok]

Andy Lau (Yeung Gor in ROCH '83) is K'ang Hsi, but the actor who played Chiu Tze Ging in ROCH '83 is now one of K'ang Hsi's most loyal and trusted mandarins.

Kam Kok Wai's .. Takatna(sp?) is one of the few and rare officials in DOMD who, while loyal to Kangxi, does not really have any relationship with Wei Xiao Bao. On one had it makes him less friendly, on the other it makes him more real.

In case anyone is unaware, I'd like to point out that this guy is a DOMD '84-only character - he is not in the novel or any other adaptation.

[Ken Cheng]

Tonight's episode really introduced the Heaven and Earth Society in a significant way (we've seen them since the beginning, but not with so much focus), and I must say, aside from leader Chan Jen Nam himself, the other guys in the society seem...kind of incompetent.

[Ian Liew]

Tonight's episode really introduced the Heaven and Earth Society in a significant way (we've seen them since the beginning, but not with so much focus), and I must say, aside from leader Chan Jen Nam himself, the other guys in the society seem...kind of incompetent.

They were mainly there to provide excellent comic relief, really.

[smurf120]

they are pretty incompetent in the translation too. Have to keep in mind at this point WXB is still about 13-14 and he still made complete fools out of them.

[Ken Cheng]

They were mainly there to provide excellent comic relief, really.

they are pretty incompetent in the translation too. Have to keep in mind at this point WXB is still about 13-14 and he still made complete fools out of them.

Kind of makes it easy to understand the reason that the whole "overthrow the Qing, restore the Ming" thing never worked out.

[Ken Cheng]

The pace is moving faster than I remember from my first viewing during the Eighties. Back then, the Obai/Eunuch Hoi part of the story seemed to last longer, but both storylines have wrapped up in the second week, and we're already getting the first sign of Ng 3 Gwai (whom I remember not appearing until much later).

Some serious martial arts are finally evident (the Queen Dowager).

[Demitre]

I liked DoMD, it's probably my favorite JY inspired adaptations; and I've seen all of them. The 84 one had pretty ugly actresses, customs were good, and Tony and Andy are the best. The 98's Jordan Chan was the best WSB, he was relatively ugly, and imho, it was the funniest. KX was wooden in this version through. The 2000 one with Dicky was an abomination, and shouldn't even be considered an adaptation. The 2008 one had the best looking women, but like someone said earlier, it was really hard to differentiate between the girls. I also thought the pacing was too slow, and way too much talking.

WSB did so many bad things, how many people did he unblinkingly kill? All those enuchs/guards, even his friend the head of the guards(though he didn't actually die). Rape is a horrible crime, but all that killing isn't something heros do either. WSB is a true anti-hero. I think rape was just another plot device to illustrate this point, otherwise, he would just be a flirty womanizer ala LXF or CLH, or YG. He never shows repentance for anything he did, so why would the rapes be any different. Most of them were there to kill him, came to his house basically. I think that was his justification. Plus the fact that they were unconscious really helps people ignore that it was rape, it would be much different if it was violent.

I am not justifying raping is right in any context, just my 2cents on what the situation and characterization was about.

[Ian Liew]

WSB did so many bad things, how many people did he unblinkingly kill? All those enuchs/guards, even his friend the head of the guards(though he didn't actually die). Rape is a horrible crime, but all that killing isn't something heros do either. WSB is a true anti-hero. I think rape was just another plot device to illustrate this point, otherwise, he would just be a flirty womanizer ala LXF or CLH, or YG. He never shows repentance for anything he did, so why would the rapes be any different. Most of them were there to kill him, came to his house basically. I think that was his justification. Plus the fact that they were unconscious really helps people ignore that it was rape, it would be much different if it was violent.

Spoilers ahead for Ken.

In WXB's defence, I think he was really devastated that he HAD to kill Duolong. He really had no choice, as it was either sit back and watch his friends in the Heaven and Earth Society die, or let Kangxi behead Duolong for letting WXB escape. In the serials he also felt quite bad about killing that little eunuch who was serving him too, but it was the lesser of two evils. Sitting back and not doing anything as per Kangxi's expectations was out of the question. Kangxi was banking on WXB not letting Duolong die, and WXB had to choose. In my opinion, that Duolong didn't die was really sweet (he was so likeable) but took away a lot of the drama from the event, and let WXB get off lighter than he expected from the choice he made - but hey, it's a story.

The other guards and eunuchs were mostly killed either in self-defence or to protect those he cared about. I don't recall him killing anyone out of malicious intent who didn't really deserve it. I'm not sure if he *would* have allowed Feng Shifan if he didn't need a substitute for Mao 18's execution, though. Feng had already surrendered and wasn't being cocky or anything, but he and Zheng Keshuang DID kill Chen Jinnan, so probably not. I can't remember if he did kill Zheng Keshuang or not, though.

[Ken Cheng]

Heheheheheheheheheh...

[Ace High]

Spoilers ahead for Ken.

In WXB's defence, I think he was really devastated that he HAD to kill Duolong. He really had no choice, as it was either sit back and watch his friends in the Heaven and Earth Society die, or let Kangxi behead Duolong for letting WXB escape. In the serials he also felt quite bad about killing that little eunuch who was serving him too, but it was the lesser of two evils. Sitting back and not doing anything as per Kangxi's expectations was out of the question. Kangxi was banking on WXB not letting Duolong die, and WXB had to choose. In my opinion, that Duolong didn't die was really sweet (he was so likeable) but took away a lot of the drama from the event, and let WXB get off lighter than he expected from the choice he made - but hey, it's a story.

The other guards and eunuchs were mostly killed either in self-defence or to protect those he cared about. I don't recall him killing anyone out of malicious intent who didn't really deserve it. I'm not sure if he *would* have allowed Feng Shifan if he didn't need a substitute for Mao 18's execution, though. Feng had already surrendered and wasn't being cocky or anything, but he and Zheng Keshuang DID kill Chen Jinnan, so probably not. I can't remember if he did kill Zheng Keshuang or not, though.

WXB truly freaked out when he met Duolong for the first time after returning to the Capital from his exile. WXB gave more than 1 million taels of silver to Duolong as compensation, albeit disguised as debt collector's fee.

Initially, WXB only make life extremely difficult to Zheng Ke Shuang and Feng Shi Fan. Only because Mao Shi Ba did WXB killed Feng. He did not killed Zheng because his promise to Chen Jin Nan.

[Doc Kwok]

He did not killed Zheng because his promise to Chen Jin Nan.

In the 84 TVB adaptation, I believe ZKS was beaten to death off-screen by WXB's subordinates in the Heaven and Earth society, partly for revenge, and partly to drive a wedge between WXB and Kangxi. WXB ended up punching them all in the gut .

[Ace High]

In the 84 TVB adaptation, I believe ZKS was beaten to death off-screen by WXB's subordinates in the Heaven and Earth society, partly for revenge, and partly to drive a wedge between WXB and Kangxi. WXB ended up punching them all in the gut .

Not happening in the actual novel. But WXB did beat Feng Shi Fan up to his heart's content before he killed Feng. ZKS was harrassed by WXB's subordinates (the Imperial Guards and the Valiant Cavalry Brigade) on hourly basis, demanding 'debt' payment.

[Ken Cheng]

K'ang Hsi was a good king, and a good friend, but it was hard for him to be both at the same time.

[Ken Cheng]

Reached Episode 14 last night, and things are beginning to ramp up. Wai Siu Bo is on his first extended excursion out of the palace, seeking out K'ang Hsi's father, the former Emperor Shunshi, who is now a monk at Mt. 5 Toi.

This is the part of DOMD '84 that I begin to have stronger memories of. I remember this episode distinctly from my original viewing more than twenty-five years ago (it's probably funnier now than it was then).

More of the girls are finally getting introduced: in the last two episodes, we've gained K'ang Hsi's sister and Seung-yee. I was starting to wonder when more of the girls were going to show up.

[devilz91]

Maybe I should watch this too. Never seen this adaptation.

[smurf120]

I always felt bad for Kangxi when his dad only left him with the words "Never Raise Taxes" when he is looking for some sagely ruling advice. I mean really dad? You abandon me for 15 years pretending to be dead with an evil wicked stepmother and the only advice you give will inevitably make the treasury not make budget????

[tweety365]

Per the story, Shunzhi is a horrible father and ruler. Just because your wife died, you abandon all responsibilities and go become a monk. Reckless and careless.

[Ken Cheng]

I always felt bad for Kangxi when his dad only left him with the words "Never Raise Taxes" when he is looking for some sagely ruling advice. I mean really dad? You abandon me for 15 years pretending to be dead with an evil wicked stepmother and the only advice you give will inevitably make the treasury not make budget????

Per the story, Shunzhi is a horrible father and ruler. Just because your wife died, you abandon all responsibilities and go become a monk. Reckless and careless.

I suppose this is a case of destiny taking a hand. Given his weak character, Shunzi would not have been an effective ruler even if he stayed in office. That being the case, why not let his more capable son K'ang Hsi take the reins?

[smurf120]

Funny thing is when I first watched (I was really young) the scene I always thought that "Wing Bu Gah Fu" in Cantonese meant "Father can never come home" which explain Kangxi (Andy Lau's) crying and sadness because they can never see each other again after this visit.

Wing Bu = Never
Gah = Family or Home
Fu = Father/Dad

Now rewatching as an adult and learning from discussions, Kangxi is probably crying because its sh*t advice!

Wing Bu = Never
Gah = Raise or Add
Fu = as in "Fu Xu" or income taxes