Xiao Feng vs HIS Yang Guo

[chibidaisuke]

Sorry dude, when interviewed and asked to name his most undefeatable character, the name JY uttered was 'Xiao Feng'.

He did? That's cool then. I wonder why no one have asked who's stronger between GJ and YG and end the neverending debate.

[chibidaisuke]

The Song Shan leader ZLC spent years to create a counter to RWX.
Ying Gu also spent years in isolation and created her own martial arts.
HYS, ZBT, LCY all also spent years in isolation and create their own arts.

YG had something none of the above had, access and teaching of a large number of greats. A confirmed list of the number of greats who had taught him arts would be HYS, OYF, H7G and HR. He had access to 9 Yin plus arts created by WCY and LCY. Plus the snake gallbladers which is the equivalent of performance drugs, something GJ does not have.

Yeah, I've always felt that YG was way luckier than GJ in access to martial arts. Don't know what's the big deal in people arguing that GJ was extremely lucky in martial arts.

[chibidaisuke]

regarding gj i feel it's pretty obvious that yg is of course at the very least 100 percent equal , and would never suffer a devastating loss against him. it is more likely that gj would lose imo. furthermore, even if you don't think yg is better then gj it is obvious that he is better then gj at every stage of their lives , and progresses much faster. [ both at 18,19,20, etc.]

Well, ZWJ obtained Great level a lot faster than YG but that doesn't necessarily mean he's stronger. Anyways back on topic please.

[Banh Mi]

The problem with Jin Yong is that with the characters' kungfu, it's not consistent. Jin Yong wrote that with Yang Guo successfully mastered Dugu Qiubai's sword technique, weapons don't matter any more. A stick, a piece of rock and be his sword. But then when fighting with the GWM, he wrote because Yang Guo's sword was just a normal sword, it broke against GWM's wheels.

Yeah, but YG hadn't mastered the sword yet, he was only up to the wooden stage.

i am pleased to announce that you all have your head up xf's ***, and underestimate yang gou. name one hero [main char] in the jinyong universe who went through solitary training so zealously for so long, and created his own martial art.

Putting in the time and effort doesn't automatically make you better.

obviously in terms of effort, and will yang gou is in no way inferior to xf, his fighting experience may be a bit less, but he is certainly more ingenious/free flowing then xf. it is by no means a quick and easy battle for either and could go to eitherside imo.

YG had 9Yin, Dog beating stick, Jade Maiden, snake bladders, divine finger flick and HIS handed to him.

XF only has a few mediocre arts and dragon palms and he excelled. With XF, it's about the fighter. He's been shown to use his dragon palms in ingenius ways. He used Founder's Long Fist against a high ranking Shaolin master and won. He performs basic techniques faster than WYY can explain counters to. Overall, he's solid and makes even the weak stuff strong.

YG needs a gimmick to win, be it a large range of elite calibre skills, or the HIS. Correct me on this, but I seem to remember YG getting depressed and distracted when he can't win.

[hoatran]

Yeah, but YG hadn't mastered the sword yet, he was only up to the wooden stage.

Only up to the wooden stage? Such a small feat eh?

XF only has a few mediocre arts and dragon palms and he excelled. With XF, it's about the fighter. He's been shown to use his dragon palms in ingenius ways. He used Founder's Long Fist against a high ranking Shaolin master and won. He performs basic techniques faster than WYY can explain counters to. Overall, he's solid and makes even the weak stuff strong.

I think you idolized Xiao Feng too much. But don't forget he's not the strongest in DGSD. At the end of the novel, he's probably was at best, 4th best.

YG needs a gimmick to win, be it a large range of elite calibre skills, or the HIS. Correct me on this, but I seem to remember YG getting depressed and distracted when he can't win.

Actually when he was depressed he's at his best. You can it gimmick or what ever. And I don't pretend to know how good these guys are. After all, they are all made up characters, and furthermore, their kungfu are all made up even more. Don't forget, Jin Yong specifically said he tried to make the characters more realistic, but the kungfu are not. So unless Jin Yong got them to fight with each other, how would you know who is better? At least in DGSD, at the end of the novel, Xiao Feng was just at best the 4th best, while in ROCH, at the end, Yang Guo was if not the best, he was equal to the best.

Read about Yang Guo below and what Jin Yong wrote about him here where before the 16 years, with HIS, Yang Guo already thought no one can defeat him. Then after he mastered the wooden sword, how much stronger was he?

"He stayed in the valley with the eagle as his companion for months. One day out of boredom, he made his way to the cliff where Dugu Qiubai buried his swords. He made his way to the top of the cliff and looked at the words underneath the decayed wooden sword:

“After the age of forty, I no longer relied on weaponry. Even bushes, trees, bamboo sticks or rocks can all be my sword. From then on, I achieved great progress and slowly reached the realm of overcoming the sword without a sword.”

Yang Guo thought to himself, “With the heavy iron sword, it can be said that I had no match under heaven’s skies; but from senior Dugu’s words, it appears that the wooden sword can defeat the heavy iron sword, and finally, no sword can defeat the wooden sword. Since Long’er said that we will only be able to see each other again in sixteen years time, with all these years to come, I might as well study the ways to defeat the heavy iron sword with the wooden sword and how to overcome
a sword without a sword.”

[hoatran]

True that YG progressed faster than GJ but IMO he still has not surpassed GJ yet at the end of ROCH.

And what did you base your opinion on?

[CC]

So unless Jin Yong got them to fight with each other, how would you know who is better? At least in DGSD, at the end of the novel, Xiao Feng was just at best the 4th best, while in ROCH, at the end, Yang Guo was if not the best, he was equal to the best.

Yeah, totally agree. At the end of Flying Fox of Snowy Mountain, Hu Fei was amongst the best if not the best, with his Hu Family Sabre, he should be able to at least tie with Yang Guo and his Heavy Iron Sword.

[Banh Mi]

Only up to the wooden stage? Such a small feat eh?

My point was that his wooden sword broke because he hadn't mastered it yet. If he mastered the wooden sword stage then his sword would not have broke against GWM. It wasn't JY being inconsistent. Atleast, not in that instance.

I think you idolized Xiao Feng too much. But don't forget he's not the strongest in DGSD. At the end of the novel, he's probably was at best, 4th best.

What does him being the best have to do with anything? I just think that he's better than YG and I provided reasons why I think so.

Actually when he was depressed he's at his best. You can it gimmick or what ever.

YG doesn't do better when he's depressed, his signature palm requires him to be depressed. But all his other skills don't need it. My point is that XF exceeds expectations by being focused, which YG lacks.

And I don't pretend to know how good these guys are. After all, they are all made up characters, and furthermore, their kungfu are all made up even more. Don't forget, Jin Yong specifically said he tried to make the characters more realistic, but the kungfu are not. So unless Jin Yong got them to fight with each other, how would you know who is better? At least in DGSD, at the end of the novel, Xiao Feng was just at best the 4th best, while in ROCH, at the end, Yang Guo was if not the best, he was equal to the best.

Well no shit sherlock. Beat me with a stick and call me silly, in all the times everyone's been posting here, you must be the only one that realised it's all fictional. Why are you even posting in this thread if you're just gonna say nothing matters cause it's fictional and JY didn't make them fight. It goes without saying that we are merely speculating.

[CC]

+1 to everything Banh Mi said.

+2 to the last paragraph.

[hoatran]

My point was that his wooden sword broke because he hadn't mastered it yet. If he mastered the wooden sword stage then his sword would not have broke against GWM. It wasn't JY being inconsistent. Atleast, not in that instance.

How do you know that Jin Yong wasn't being inconsistent? You mean he has always been consistent with the character's kungfu? What's wrong with the idea that his sword would not have broken if he was fighting with someone with inferior internal energy, but GWM was not someone with inferior internal energy. And don't tell me GWM after 16 years was below of Guo Jing or Xiao Feng. There was absolutely no evidence of that. The only evidence was that after 16 years, GWM was able to fight against both Zhou Botong and Yideng at the same time.

What does him being the best have to do with anything? I just think that he's better than YG and I provided reasons why I think so.

You mean your beliefs? I guess when you have your beliefs, then there is nothing can change that.

YG doesn't do better when he's depressed, his signature palm requires him to be depressed. But all his other skills don't need it. My point is that XF exceeds expectations by being focused, which YG lacks.

What if XF doesn't focus? Would he exceed expectations when he did not focus? Like when he was giving up at the Juxian manor would he escape death if his dad did not rescue him? What's the difference when a kungfu skill requires someone to be in a certain state of mind? Like Guo Jing, XLN, Zhou Botong being simple people was able to ultilize 2 hands performing different kungfu at the same time? Skills are skills. If someone need to fight a major opponent, he/she will prepare, to make sure he/she would be in a certain state of mind to do the battle.

Well no shit sherlock. Beat me with a stick and call me silly, in all the times everyone's been posting here, you must be the only one that realised it's all fictional. Why are you even posting in this thread if you're just gonna say nothing matters cause it's fictional and JY didn't make them fight. It goes without saying that we are merely speculating.

Well, I woudn't know. With you were so certain that this one will beat that one. Or that you were certain that Yang Guo "only" attained the wooden sword stage, who knows? I'm glad that you clarified that you were speculating.

[HuntingX]

You're either not particularly bright, or not particularly logical. I can't figure out which yet.

GWM was losing to Yideng + ZBT, badly. He was mostly trying to run away (and failing). GWM was certainly worse than GJ and XF post 16 years. At the barest level, we have the following: GWM < YD + ZBT. Unfortunately, YD + ZBT > GJ, YG individually. Whether or not XF could take on both together is completely unknown.

Ranking in a story has nothing to do with ranking outside a story. For instance, let's take a random hyperpowerful universe (dragonball, for instance), where even low-mid tier characters can blow up planets. Does that mean that they couldn't take on a martial artist in a JY story? Of course not. Similarly, XF is in a much rougher universe (DGSD has higher tiers than the Trilogy), so he's definitely not expected to be #1 (nobody will argue Sweeps could wipe the floor with all the greats COMBINED).

Focus has little to do with this debate. YG's Sad Palms require a certain state of mind, that doesn't exist while he's with XLN, so it's more of a presence/absence of XLN that allows Sad Palms to work, not his state of mind.

Regardless, there is no concrete definitive evidence that XF would beat YG or vice versa. That said, there is more circumstantial evidence and featbased evidence that XF would indeed beat YG. However, hoatran has provided none of that, and has instead taken quotes either out of context, or completely fictitious. That is annoying

[hoatran]

You're either not particularly bright, or not particularly logical. I can't figure out which yet.

Let's not calling names now.

GWM was losing to Yideng + ZBT, badly. He was mostly trying to run away (and failing). GWM was certainly worse than GJ and XF post 16 years. At the barest level, we have the following: GWM < YD + ZBT. Unfortunately, YD + ZBT > GJ, YG individually. Whether or not XF could take on both together is completely unknown.

Yes, my mistake. GWM was not fighting both Yideng and Zhou Botong. However Jin Yong did not say he was losing to both of them either. But he did fight one, then the other. With Zhou Botong, neither could do anything to the other. The same thing with Yideng. So GWM ~ Zhou Botong ~ Yideng.
How would you know GWM was worse than Guo Jing after 16 years? Was Guo Jing better than Zhou Botong or Yideng? Any evidence there? Not to mention there is no evidence where Yang Guo was in comparision with Zhou Botong or Yideng or Guo Jing after 16 years.

Ranking in a story has nothing to do with ranking outside a story. For instance, let's take a random hyperpowerful universe (dragonball, for instance), where even low-mid tier characters can blow up planets. Does that mean that they couldn't take on a martial artist in a JY story? Of course not. Similarly, XF is in a much rougher universe (DGSD has higher tiers than the Trilogy), so he's definitely not expected to be #1 (nobody will argue Sweeps could wipe the floor with all the greats COMBINED).

Yeah Right! Evidence DGSD kungu on the higher level? Or this is another piece of speculation? This is why I don't like to discuss kungfu levels.

Focus has little to do with this debate. YG's Sad Palms require a certain state of mind, that doesn't exist while he's with XLN, so it's more of a presence/absence of XLN that allows Sad Palms to work, not his state of mind.

Yeah Right. When Yang Guo was battling the GWM after 16 years, XLN WAS there.

Regardless, there is no concrete definitive evidence that XF would beat YG or vice versa. That said, there is more circumstantial evidence and featbased evidence that XF would indeed beat YG. However, hoatran has provided none of that, and has instead taken quotes either out of context, or completely fictitious. That is annoying

I don't know who would beat whom. Thus I did not have to provide any evidence of who is better than whom.

[HuntingX]

Throughout ROCH, Guo Jing was repeatedly regarded as the 'premiere fighter in the mainlands' and was 'in the prime of his life.' Naturally, he should be regarded as the top fighter. All his showings (feats) in ROCH were very much skewed towards his favor.

DGSD has the 3 XYP elders, XZ, and Sweeper Monk, all of whom are considered the very pinnacle of martial arts in JY's universe. Nobody in any of the other novels (besides possibly SPT) could compete with them.

YG couldn't use Sad Palms BECAUSE XLN was there. He was only able to use them (for a moment) because he got sad that he'd be separated from her again. It was a gimmick.

You've clearly been arguing for YG's side, so to say that you don't know who would beat whom, is not a true statement.

[GuGu]

xf would have to hurt xln in front of yg. then we'd have a real fight.

[athlee]

Read about Yang Guo below and what Jin Yong wrote about him here where before the 16 years, with HIS, Yang Guo already thought no one can defeat him. Then after he mastered the wooden sword, how much stronger was he?

Lol, you are taking what YG thought as fact? GWM thought pretty much the same thing before he encountered GJ. JMZ also had pretty much the same thoughts. All of the students of DCQ thought he was the best. YG was certainly in exalted company

Well, I woudn't know. With you were so certain that this one will beat that one. Or that you were certain that Yang Guo "only" attained the wooden sword stage, who knows? I'm glad that you clarified that you were speculating.

and then

I don't know who would beat whom. Thus I did not have to provide any evidence of who is better than whom.

And yet you were so certain about YG's level in comparison to GJ (they also did not fight each other) in the earlier post

But on a separate note, I like one of your arguments

What if XF doesn't focus? Would he exceed expectations when he did not focus? Like when he was giving up at the Juxian manor would he escape death if his dad did not rescue him? What's the difference when a kungfu skill requires someone to be in a certain state of mind? Like Guo Jing, XLN, Zhou Botong being simple people was able to ultilize 2 hands performing different kungfu at the same time? Skills are skills. If someone need to fight a major opponent, he/she will prepare, to make sure he/she would be in a certain state of mind to do the battle.

The next time someone (hi PJ )says that DY will lose in a fight because his 6MSJ cannot activate freely, I will quote you and put WYY on the brink of death

[minutemanwayne]

In the 3rd edition of HSDS Zhang Sengfeng noted through Zhang Wujis eyes that only several pepople had attained that level of internal. The names mentioned was ZSF himself Guo Jing, Yang Guo, and the other greats. So they pretty much had the equal amount of internal energy

[chibidaisuke]

This is a piece of cake. XF could make the nigh-omnipotent Buddha-in-disguise SuperMonk spit blood, and clash palms w/ DY (100+ years of energy) and XZ (~200 years of first-rate energy) simultaneously (the latter canNOT be put at a disadvantage), YG therefore is nothing to him. Within 50 stances XF would snatch the sword, stick it up YG's arse, and finish thing up with a direct Dragon Appearing in the Field strike on the handle of the sword.

[chibidaisuke]

In the 3rd edition of HSDS Zhang Sengfeng noted through Zhang Wujis eyes that only several pepople had attained that level of internal. The names mentioned was ZSF himself Guo Jing, Yang Guo, and the other greats. So they pretty much had the equal amount of internal energy

But this is about XF here.

[Western Eccentric]

This is a piece of cake. XF could make the nigh-omnipotent Buddha-in-disguise SuperMonk spit blood, and clash palms w/ DY (100+ years of energy) and XZ (~200 years of first-rate energy) simultaneously (the latter canNOT be put at a disadvantage), YG therefore is nothing to him. Within 50 stances XF would snatch the sword, stick it up YG's arse, and finish thing up with a direct Dragon Appearing in the Field strike on the handle of the sword.

Too bad as a fighter Yang Guo are more better than Wuji..
Don't forget Yang Guo almost take every of Jinlun Fawang powerful strike (which as strong as Xiao Feng) head on even when he's weaponless n only have one arm
Since he wield Heavy Sword now I think he can fights Xiao Feng till stalemate 🤓🤓🤓🤓

[Brainsuker]

I don't like Yang Guo power level from the TV adaption. They make him OP, by beating Huang Yao She and Zhou Po Dong after the time skip. But actually in the novel, he isn't. (It is the old novel adaption I think. I read it in around 1990) Yang Guo doesn't beat Huang and Zhou, but he makes them impress.

Well, I had read Tien Long Ba Bu, but it's long ago. And I think that I already forget about that. So I can't say about Xiao Feng power level in the novel.

But if we use TV adaption as the base, Xiao Feng definitely better than Yang Guo. He's more OP than OP. Just watch the 2003 version. He manages to beat a Liao Army in their battle formation alone. So his power is stronger than a whole army. Yang Guo was only manage to break through the formation by using his Eagle at the end of ROCH from the Sky. If Yang Guo has the same level as the TV Xiao Feng, those Mongol Invaders will never able to take over Xiang Yang, ever.