Monk Rumble (DGSD era): Shaolin monks vs. Heavenly Dragon Temple monks

[Ken Cheng]

If, during the DGSD era, we were to assemble Chief Abbot Yeun Chi of the Shaolin Temple and his five most powerful martial brothers of the Yeun-generation and pit them against Monk Fu Wing and the five most powerful monks at the Heavenly Dragon Temple in Dali for a martial arts rumble, which side would prevail?

[Ren Wo Xing]

Who is Fu Wing?

[shortsight]

Hmm, doesn't sound like Elder Kurong at all.

[Ian Liew]

Fu Wing is Kurong in Canto. Like Leslie Cheung Kwok Wing was Zhang Guo Rong. Sometimes dialects and languages can completely sound different from what you are used to. I'll never forget the Vietnamese Yang Guo, which brought up a mental picture of a winter melon.

[Ken Cheng]

So now that Ian has so graciously resolved the dialect issue for us...what about the rumble?

[Ian Liew]

I don't see Duan Yanqing being able to beat a Xuan-generation monk, and he was easily a match for Duan Zhengming, who later became Ben Chen, possibly the weakest of the Ben monks due to his relatively late monkhood. Jiu Mozhi beat Xuan Tong quite easily, but he also managed to hold five Ben monks until Kurong joined the fight. I don't think Jiu Mozhi could hold 5 Xuan monks in an all-out fight, and probably not even in a "my Shaolin art is better than yours" exhibition match.

If it's one on one, I'd give it to Shaolin. If it's a six at once thing, then the Tianlong chaps have their 6MSJ, even if it's not strictly a formation, but if the Shaolin monks are prepared for it I'm pretty sure they'd be able to come up with a formation of their own, or spread out to force the Tianlong monks to spread fire, upon which time Shaolin should win. Kurong might be able to match Xuanci, but the other five probably would lose. Of course, if Shaolin were careless and got a Xuan or two cut down by lasers before they closed in for the fight, thinking that the Bens only had good old 1Yang, then it's a different story, but I doubt it.

We're assuming that Xuan Ku and Xuan Bei (and a sixth Xuan) are at least as good as Xuan Nan and Xuan Tong.

[PJ]

I thought Jin Yong hinted in 3rd edition that Xuan-generation monks > Dali monks, since Xiao Feng =~ 4 Duan Yanqing (Xiao said 5 Duan Yanqing's would overwhelm him, so 4 is still dealable), while Xiao Feng =~ 3 Xuan-generation monks (or was it just 3 Xuanci's... anyone remember?).

[Ken Cheng]

This could be a fun fight to watch.

[forgot password]

The Shaolin monks should win as they seem to have more internal energies, and in terms of offensive techniques they're also not at a disadvantage compared to the Dali chaps. People tend to rate the LMSJ as the most powerful offensive technique but I think it's just as good as any advanced long-distance technique of Shaolin. After all they're all help the user to shoot energy out of their fingers or palms. I never get why Jiumozhi was so obsessed w/ the LMSJ when his own Flaming Saber was not any less powerful/versatile than it.

[K2Grey]

I think the fact that JMZ was so obsessed with 6MSJ despite possessing Huoyan Dao and all 72 supreme arts of Shaolin indicates he must have seen something truly amazing in 6MSJ which was considerably beyond anything he had.

Then again, he invested considerable time and effort into learning Yi Jin Jing despite getting jack squat out of it.

[Ian Liew]

I think the 6MSJ practised by Duan Yu (i.e. being able to control all six swords at once) was superior in battle to the Huo Yandao and even the Shaolin arts (at least those which were on display such as the Yan Huazi, DuoluoYezi and Wushuangjiezi). Each sword had its own distinctive way of attack and you could counter them individually if you knew which sword was being used, but it'd be really hard to counter all six at once, or even if they came at you nonstop in waves.

The reason why the Bens are likely to get owned in this fight with Shaolin is because each monk can only use one sword, and there's no real formation technique which allows for 6 people using one finger each to fight anywhere near as effectively as one person with 6 fingers.

[forgot password]

The LMSJ has 6 different meridian swords so naturally it'd be superior to single long-distance finger techniques like the Nianhuazhi, but what if a LMSJ user meets an opponent who has mastered 6 different single finger techniques? I don't think he'd still have the advantage of being more unpredictable then.

[Ian Liew]

It's unlikely that you'd be able to fire two finger-techniques simultaneously, though. If DY fired off just two swords at once he'd already gain an advantage, much less six.

I'm not sure if a single meridian sword would have any advantage over other finger techniques. Was it recorded as being more destructive, or longer-range, or anything compared to other arts? We know that it's more dangerous than a single 1yang because 1yang only seals acupoints while the meridian swords actually pierce and slash, but I think the arts Jiu Mozhi displayed in Tianlong temple were probably not inferior to 1yang, but I don't know how different they were. The book might have detailed on how each of the three worked.

[Banh Mi]

XF surmised that if LMSJ was used properly by DY, even he would not have a way to beat it.