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Thread: Domineering Asian Parents

  1. #21
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    The West does have it at the other extreme, though - my colleague migrated to the UK, and one day caned his kid for something really bad. The next day his kid told his teachers in school and the social welfare people almost did him in for child abuse - that's the price you pay for migrating there, I guess, but it just shows how different societies function.
    So, if the kid turn out bad due to lack of discipline, who to blame?

    I know child abuse is a serious issue, but, the west really can go overboard. Even giving your kid a slap can get you in trouble. But, on the other hand, true abuse children got overlook.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  2. #22
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    I think it's better to have dominant parents that helps to motiviate their children to pursue their goals in life.
    Are these their goals or their parents' goals?
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  3. #23
    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    im just saying that in most cases young people don't know what is best for them. I wish i studied much harder than i did when i was younger and now it's too late.
    It's not that parents should push their children into doing things they don't want to but at least reason and explain to them.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    It's never too late to study. If you think it's too late, you never had and never will have any passion for it, so no amount of effort from your parents would help.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  5. #25
    Senior Member xJadedx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    Note to self: should try dating banana yuppie Asian chicks, who are most likely to have mummy issues.
    Wouldn't just limit them to the yuppies, but your choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    So, if the kid turn out bad due to lack of discipline, who to blame?

    I know child abuse is a serious issue, but, the west really can go overboard. Even giving your kid a slap can get you in trouble. But, on the other hand, true abuse children got overlook.
    Eh, you can discipline your child and motivate them without using any form of corporal punishment. For me, parents who resort to physical punishments just don't have what it takes to truly parent their children properly. Kind of pathetic, really.
    Now, in a lot of cultures, corporal punishment is acceptable and widely used. Even though I still think that is unnecessary, it is worthwhile to point out that in places where corporal punishment is used as a norm and with legit reasoning and teachings, the damages it has on the child is much less severe. That said, corporal punishments really shouldn't be used at all. There are ways to punish your child that isn't borderline abusive. Time-outs, taking away privileges (not rights), tend to work much better. Note that privileges are things the child wants but doesn't need, like TV or games, not basic needs like being able to go to the bathroom or drink water when they're thirsty, which is what Chua took away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    im just saying that in most cases young people don't know what is best for them. I wish i studied much harder than i did when i was younger and now it's too late.
    It's not that parents should push their children into doing things they don't want to but at least reason and explain to them.
    That's completely different than what Chua was saying in her article. Reason and explanations are not the same as punishments or pushing. The former is perfectly legit, while the latter does more damage than good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    It's never too late to study. If you think it's too late, you never had and never will have any passion for it, so no amount of effort from your parents would help.
    This. And pretty much everything else he said in this thread.
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  6. #26
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xJadedx View Post
    Eh, you can discipline your child and motivate them without using any form of corporal punishment. For me, parents who resort to physical punishments just don't have what it takes to truly parent their children properly. Kind of pathetic, really.
    Now, in a lot of cultures, corporal punishment is acceptable and widely used. Even though I still think that is unnecessary, it is worthwhile to point out that in places where corporal punishment is used as a norm and with legit reasoning and teachings, the damages it has on the child is much less severe. That said, corporal punishments really shouldn't be used at all. There are ways to punish your child that isn't borderline abusive. Time-outs, taking away privileges (not rights), tend to work much better. Note that privileges are things the child wants but doesn't need, like TV or games, not basic needs like being able to go to the bathroom or drink water when they're thirsty, which is what Chua took away.
    Sometime, light corporal punishment is the most effective. I'm not asking the parents to beat the crap out of the kid without reason. But, I don't think a slap on the hand warrant the parent being hauled to court by social worker.

    Some children are very stubborn.

    Like Ian said, different child needs different method. There's no fast and hard rule. Taking away privileges didn't seem to work on little Lulu (note: I'm not saying Ms. Chua is right to withhold toilet break and water from Lulu.).

    The West has gone to extreme in child protection (but still let genuine abuse case fall through the loop hole). Some children nowadays can threaten to report to police if a parent ever try to discipline them.

    I read the comments accompanying the articles. Many criticised Ms.Chua. But, there are also some who appreciate that their parents pushed them hard when they were young and now have a really good relationship with their parents. Of course, no one has yet agreed on the name calling which all has disapproved of so far (and me too). But, some appreciate the pushing.

    In case someone thinks so, I'm not siding with Ms.Chua. This is not a black and 'white I'm with her or not with her'. Just seeing things from different POVs.
    Last edited by kidd; 01-12-11 at 03:14 AM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  7. #27
    Senior Member kay &!*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xJadedx View Post

    Eh, you can discipline your child and motivate them without using any form of corporal punishment. For me, parents who resort to physical punishments just don't have what it takes to truly parent their children properly. Kind of pathetic, really.
    That's very true-- I've seen it happened before. 'Parents' that get frustrated after their kid doesn't comply resort to extreme physical punishment out of frustration because they don't know what the **** to do. Who's to blame, really? One of my brother is like that with his kid and it drives me crazy. He's ****in ridiculous at times, gold feeding and *** wiping his kid all their life and when they don't listen to him, he hits them, HARD or yell his lungs out at them. Gotta teach them who's authority ever since they were young. i promise myself i won't ever raise my kids like him and his wife. imo, they make shitty parents that don't know how to raise kids. they earn no respect from me

    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post



    I read the comments accompanying the articles. Many criticised Ms.Chua. But, there are also some who appreciate that their parents pushed them hard when they were young and now have a really good relationship with their parents. Of course, no one has yet agreed on the name calling which all has disapproved of so far (and me too). But, some appreciate the pushing.
    i can see why some may appreciate their parents for doing so because i feel the same way.. but come to think of it, i really miss out on a lot of childhood activities and those are things i can never have the chance to do again. makes me sad but also pissed the **** off if i recap. i know they were on the lookout, worried that i may get with the wrong crowd but i remember thinking that i would NEVER do/get involved with certain things because i, myself know better yet they still wouldn't trust me. so until about 10th grade, i've been cooped up all my life and after i was allowed to actually go out, i felt so out of the loop. like there were so many things i had to experience to make up for past times.. wasn't exactly 'street smart' and seriously could not keep a convo going because of my social awkwardness. whatta sad child i was.
    Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xJadedx View Post
    Eh, you can discipline your child and motivate them without using any form of corporal punishment. For me, parents who resort to physical punishments just don't have what it takes to truly parent their children properly. Kind of pathetic, really.
    Sometimes corporal punishment can make a lesson stick with the kid. Good parents who use corporal punishment are not always sadists or hapless inadequate souls taking the easy way out - punishment is used sparingly so as to not diminish the effect of the cane, and always the child is told exactly why they're getting hit, and why what they did was such a bad thing. Above all the child is always reassured that they're loved and always precious, but that the lesson has to be learnt. The good book teaches that to spare the rod is to spoil the child, and the sanzijing also teaches that "yang bu jiao, fu zi guo, jiao bu yan, shi zi duo". Rational parents always know best how to teach their kids, and corporal punishment in itself is not a bad thing, although it has been open to serious abuse by many disturbed individuals.

    I recall an advert when I was in the UK on business a few years ago.. some anti-child abuse video. Some kid was hiding in the attic, locking the door behind him. You could hear his father's voice calling out his name quite fiercely. The boy sat on the floor leaning against the door, looking terrified, while the dad slowly ascended the stairs, calling out his son's name ominously (he didn't have a cane or any object in his hand by the way). The camera then focuses on the boy's face, and the "anti-child abuse" words or thereabouts appeared. The thing which annoyed me was that the advert focused on a tree without showing the forest. What did the boy do? What was the father (if he really was the father) going to do - scold, question, interrogate, cane, mutilate the boy? What is the boy's history, and how does he respond to reasonable advice? What's the father like - quick to anger and violence, or a really nice man who just is forced to do what he needed to do? There are so many factors which come into play, but the advert (for obvious reasons) chooses to focus on the single act of the punishment. We cannot possibly hope to know whether corporal punishment is appropriate or not without knowing the whole picture, and we never do.

    By the way, I love my sons very much, I'll spoil them rotten, and encourage them to pursue their dreams. I'll probably encourage them to join school plays too (Amy Chua, you have no idea what you're forcing your kids to miss out on - you're raising individual children, not manufacturing Barbie dolls and suitable princesses for diplomatic marriage) and ensure they have an all-round experience in life, providing as much guidance as I can. But there are times when they will insist on doing the wrong things, or refuse to do the right things, and when all else fails, I will not hesitate to ensure that they learn what needs to be learned, so that the cane in a loving environment, and not the court or gallows in the future when it's too late, remain the worst fate their ill-advised liberties will earn.
    Last edited by Ian Liew; 01-12-11 at 04:27 AM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    I've got whipped a fair bit as a kid (not counting the many threats of whipping) but it was never to push me to study harder, esp if that's something I didn't enjoy. My parents simply introduced me to a vast number of topics and explained enough so that I got curious about some of them and then they left me to deal with my own curiosity.

    Unlike other Asian kids, I actually requested that I got piano lessons and later quit it as I didn't like it enough to practice diligently. If I were forced to work hard at it, I would never bother with taking up dancing later, which is 1000 times better.

    My kids will definitely get whipped! I can hear the "thanks heaps, Dad!!!" echoing from the future already.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  10. #30
    Senior Member ByTmE's Avatar
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    In two decades or so, it might be interesting to be able to revisit these ideas we have of child rearing for the currently child less members of the forum. I agree with Ian Liew, that some lessons are best "learned" after an appropriate spanking. I have been around many children and some of them are just terrible...yes it might be due to incompetent parenting [and maybe the parents should get smacked] but some children are exceedingly strong willed.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    It's never too late to study. If you think it's too late, you never had and never will have any passion for it, so no amount of effort from your parents would help.
    thats true, i mean studying for self knowledge is great and all but it wont show to ur employers cause its too late already. the university u graduated from cant be change no matter how hard u study nor can ur grades.

    ive interviewed enough jobs to know that employers dont really give a dam about how smart u are, they just look at ur university + experience on ur resume, if its not some top 50 school, they just throw ur resume in the trash and go on.

    i feel the same as exodus. if i had studied harder when i was young and maybe got in a better university, things would be different. its too late now
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  12. #32
    Senior Member xJadedx's Avatar
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    Like I said, in cultures where corporal punishments are the norm and (this is the important part) when it is accompanied by sufficient reason and explanations, it can be effective and the damages are less severe. But the importance here is the focus on the reasoning and explanations to the child about why you're punishing them. A lot of parents suck at the explanation part. However, there are still plenty of much more effective ways to discipline your child without laying a hand on them. But when you're in a Western society and you're using corporal punishments, chances are, it will come and bite you in the ***. Like I said, I do not believe in corporal punishment for many reasons and I do see it as a lack of parenting abilities. One of the reasons for my belief is a result of how I was raised.
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  13. #33
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  14. #34
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    You guys know that Taiwanese news site that creates animations for their news?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ0Qf...layer_embedded

    LOVE IT!!!
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    You guys know that Taiwanese news site that creates animations for their news?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ0Qf...layer_embedded

    LOVE IT!!!
    Candide, thanks for sharing that link! I find the video clip totally hilarious and bring some truth to the topic... LOL I think I'm blessed with a mother who isn't that ridiculous and gives me freewill to choose.

    The animation work is not bad...
    Last edited by remember_Cedric; 01-14-11 at 05:10 AM.
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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    It's a publicity stunt so that people will buy her book. New update on wiki.

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Chua's Defence

    Chua explains in a follow-up article in the WSJ: "my actual book is not a how-to guide; it’s a memoir, the story of our family’s journey in two cultures, and my own eventual transformation as a mother. Much of the book is about my decision to retreat from the strict “Chinese” approach, after my younger daughter rebelled at 13."In this interview Chua also explains that even though her native dialect is Hokkien, she made sure her children both learned to speak Mandarin.

    In reaction to this defense, the Boston Globe presented her actions as a massive publicity stunt: "Chua is playing an intentional mental game — claiming that the method of raising children that has driven so many to therapy in their adult lives is actually the right way to parent."The Globe goes on to criticize her "perpetuation of the media stereotypes of Asian-Americans that are already so prevalent in our society — quiet, obedient, good-at-math nerds that through their rigid discipline end up having deficient social skills. ". She is criticized for her reaction to the controversy she has generated: "It’s not another article criticizing the Wall Street Journal for taking her “out of context.” It’s “buy the book to get the full story.”"
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    It's a publicity stunt so that people will buy her book. New update on wiki.
    it sure worked, we havent had a 2 page debate on anything in the open debate forum for a long long time
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  18. #38
    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    You guys know that Taiwanese news site that creates animations for their news?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ0Qf...layer_embedded

    LOVE IT!!!
    That's an interesting news channel... Thanks for sharing, Candy.
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  19. #39
    Senior Member xJadedx's Avatar
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    So she just confirmed even more she's a yuppie *****, who only cares about her own book sales rather than anything else.
    Because I'm somewhere in between,
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    http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/...re_not_su.html

    This is a pretty interesting take on it.
    The fact that the Wall Street Article was actually bits and pieces of her book used to portray her a certain way definitely puts a slant on things. Funny how our perceptions about her change quite a bit.

    What I like about this article is he teases out her core beliefs about herself from the kind of information she mentions. That she's speaking from the background of an afluent lawyer, not from a chinese mother etc.

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