View Poll Results: Who is worse/more hated?

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  • Chiu Tze Ging (child-abuser, bully, traitor)

    11 78.57%
  • Wan Tze Ping/Yan Tze Bing (rapist)

    3 21.43%
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Thread: Chiu Tze Ging vs. Wan Tze Ping/Yan Tze Bing - who was worse/more hated?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Chiu Tze Ging vs. Wan Tze Ping/Yan Tze Bing - who was worse/more hated?

    Chiu Tze Ging was a bully, a child-abuser, and a traitor. His martial brother Wan Tze Ping/Yan Tze Bing was none of those things, but he was something else that many believe is worse than all of those things put together: a rapist.

    Whom do you think was worse/more hated?

  2. #2
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    I actually feel quite sorry for Yin Zhiping/Zhen Zhibing. He's like the Wanyan Honlie of ROCH, an example of how one nasty smear can bring down an otherwise immaculate reputation. While the rape was horrific, if you take that away, YZP/ZZB was probably no less heroic than your protagonists. He also repented for his crime (Big theme in the whole Condor Trilogy is the one of crime/reconciliation), while on the other hand, Zhao Zhijing was just a selfish ******* through and through.

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    I think he didn't do enough good to make up for his crime.

    I don't recall him doing anything particular beneficial for the world outside of being deeply involved in Taoism, and generally being an honorable guy which makes it worse since that's pretty much all he has going for him. His "studies" and "cultivation" prove to be pretty crappy if he can't control his lust -- something he was likely trained to do since a child. It's not like she was seducing him or anything, he was just a plain old horndog.

    If he did as much good as Guo Jing then he deserves a pass, but all his accomplishments are tied to his Taoist cultivation, which this incident destroys completely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Chiu Tze Ging was a bully, a child-abuser, and a traitor. His martial brother Wan Tze Ping/Yan Tze Bing was none of those things, but he was something else that many believe is worse than all of those things put together: a rapist.

    Whom do you think was worse/more hated?
    Wan Tze Ping/Yan Tze Bing is at least 1000 time worse than Chiu Tze Ging. He is the most hated character in ROCH for what he did to SLN.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Cesare's Avatar
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    Zhen was weak. Zhao was really really mean.
    I can forgive weakness, esp. considering Zhen did grow some backbone in the end. Real wickedness is worse, in my book at least.
    As characters, I like them both. Personality-wise - Zhen was a more or less good guy, obviously willing to make up for his mistakes - and inclined to do good.
    He does deserve a pass.
    Zhao only served his own interests and was overall an arrogant, treacherous *******. And he did much more harm than Zhen - to many more people.
    I can understand how they *both* can seem despicable in some poeple's eyes, but how anyone can consider Zhen the worse of the two is beyond me.
    别想把黑暗放在我的面前
    太阳已经生长在我心底
    不再有封闭的畏惧
    奔腾的灵魂飞上天际
    太阳 我在这里

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cesare View Post
    Zhen was weak. Zhao was really really mean.
    I can forgive weakness, esp. considering Zhen did grow some backbone in the end. Real wickedness is worse, in my book at least.
    As characters, I like them both. Personality-wise - Zhen was a more or less good guy, obviously willing to make up for his mistakes - and inclined to do good.
    He does deserve a pass.
    Zhao only served his own interests and was overall an arrogant, treacherous *******. And he did much more harm than Zhen - to many more people.
    I can understand how they *both* can seem despicable in some poeple's eyes, but how anyone can consider Zhen the worse of the two is beyond me.
    Wan/Yan Tze Bing's victim is the goddess of beauty that people, especially men, love to worship. On the other hand, Chiu Tze Ging's victims are a whole bunch of stinking taoists that people don't give a shit about them.

  7. #7
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I *really* hate this idea that some victims are "better" than others. That doesn't sound like any view of justice that I want to be a part of.

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    Completely outside the context of ROCH, I do think that the victims' identities should play a role in both deciding the punishment and determining severity of the crime.

    Raping a child or a grown woman has its differences in emotional damage and trauma suffered, so if you value trying to find a fitting punishment for the crime, I think it's impossible not to judge some victims as "better" or "worse". (Better in the sense that it's better to have a grown woman raped than a developing teenage girl, or a promiscuous woman rather than a chaste woman).

    The legal system, and pretty much any policy making entity, is just forced to work with imperfect information so we have to make umbrella penalties, but I think a case by case assessment is the correct thing to do for novel characters where we pretty much perfect information.
    Last edited by tape; 01-21-11 at 05:42 PM.

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    Senior Member chibidaisuke's Avatar
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    Funny how Zhen Zhibing/Yin Zhiping is hated to no end because he raped Xiaolongnu while I hardly see any hate for Yang Xiao who had raped Ji Xiaofu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chibidaisuke View Post
    Funny how Zhen Zhibing/Yin Zhiping is hated to no end because he raped Xiaolongnu while I hardly see any hate for Yang Xiao who had raped Ji Xiaofu.
    Like I said in my previous post, there's context. All rape is not equal despite what the law indicates.

  11. #11
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    I wonder how many other Quanzhen Taoists would have raped XLN given the same opportunity as Zhen Zhibing. When he first saw XLN, he was with a bunch of other Taoists including Hao Datong. It was said that except Hao Datong, every one of them felt something inside.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    To clarify my previous post, I'm just saying that a pastor raping a woman would cause much more controversy and hatred than say an escaped convict. The public outrage will just differ by a huge amount, despite both victims suffering.

    XLN is a sheltered, beautiful goddess while JXF is a hardened jianghu warrior. There's a difference there too, but in this case I think the difference in character between Yang Xiao and ZZB is what makes ZZB so much more despicable.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    I wonder how many other Quanzhen Taoists would have raped XLN given the same opportunity as Zhen Zhibing. When he first saw XLN, he was with a bunch of other Taoists including Hao Datong. It was said that except Hao Datong, every one of them felt something inside.
    Makes you sort of wonder about Gok Dai Tung, doesn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I *really* hate this idea that some victims are "better" than others. That doesn't sound like any view of justice that I want to be a part of.
    Yeah, I'm not sure how much hate ZZB/YZP would gotten if his victim wasn't one of the protagonists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shrang View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure how much hate ZZB/YZP would gotten if his victim wasn't one of the protagonists.
    It makes a bigger difference than some people care to admit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shrang View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure how much hate ZZB/YZP would gotten if his victim wasn't one of the protagonists.
    The result may be: 200,000,000 haters less (~ 20% of China's population), but 1 more super hater, that is me.

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Wan/Yan Tze Bing's victim is the goddess of beauty that people, especially men, love to worship. On the other hand, Chiu Tze Ging's victims are a whole bunch of stinking taoists that people don't give a shit about them.
    That would be such a great sarcastic quote, but the scary thing is I think TC means every word....

  18. #18
    Senior Member chibidaisuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    That would be such a great sarcastic quote, but the scary thing is I think TC means every word....
    Yeah, that seriously is got to be one of the most messed up ways of thinking. Xiaolongnu being beautiful doesn't mean that she f**king gets to be judged more favourable than anyone else.
    Last edited by chibidaisuke; 01-25-11 at 09:34 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Wan/Yan Tze Bing's victim is the goddess of beauty that people, especially men, love to worship. On the other hand, Chiu Tze Ging's victims are a whole bunch of stinking taoists that people don't give a shit about them.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Quote Originally Posted by chibidaisuke View Post
    Funny how Zhen Zhibing/Yin Zhiping is hated to no end because he raped Xiaolongnu while I hardly see any hate for Yang Xiao who had raped Ji Xiaofu.
    That rapist guy, Tian Bo Guang, in SOD is also well loved.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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