Is Sad Palms >> 18 Dragon Palms?

[Exodus]

actually in a real fight with others of the same caliber the most important thing is instinct and how well you adopt to the specific situation. YG overall lvl in correlated to the sad palm just like GJ to dragon palm.

HYS statement is flawed it's not accurate since he haven't exchange palms with GJ in a long time and thus don't know how much he have improved and also he didn't trade palms with YG potentially output which would overwhelm him.

The truth being said, the fact is that YG is the only great to defeat another great in the triology. Based on this fact we can say YG > other greats.

[tape]

But I also find it one of those JY mysteries that a relatively sad YG can be neutralized by HYS (and I don't believe YG was going easy because he wanted to test HYS's palm techniques due to the whole Nun of South sea ordeal).

I don't have much problem in believing Yang Guo didn't use his most lethal stances against Huang Yaoshi, because when it comes down to it, they were just having a friendly martial arts competition, which is a lot different from a duel to the death. Despite Yang Guo wanting to know pretty badly, he still has great respect for Huang Yaoshi and wouldn't just unleash his full power without a warning and damage their relationship.

After the duel, he could easily just ask Huang Yaoshi about the nun -- he didn't have to force it out of him through martial arts. Huang wouldn't lie to Yang Guo and both know that.

[tape]

Btw, after this discussion I have seriously started to re-evaluate YG's lvl and GWM's. Not necessarily based on the final display of Sad Palm's power, but YG's superiority over GWM as a whole

What was your old opinion, and what is your new opinion? As high as I rate Dugu Qiubai and HIS, I never really rated YG very highly, but in discussing his last battle with GWM so much recently, it seems that he is solidly ahead of the other Greats.

He could defeat GWM within 300 stances without Sad Palms or HIS, which is actually quite a feat and demonstrates a clear level of superiority. The Old Greats couldn't even defeat QQR in less than 300 stances, so the discrepancy between the Old Greats and YG is at least the difference between Old Greats and QQR.

Now, we have someone who can defeat someone within 300 stances that the Greats probably would lose to. Is that a 10-20% in difference, or less?

[PJ]

sure but i think it's fair to assume that GWM would've beat HYS in a fair fight...

It's also fair to say Yang Guo is not better than GJ....

God, why do ppl waste their time on this useless topic?

[tape]

It's also fair to say Yang Guo is not better than GJ....

God, why do ppl waste their time on this useless topic?

Sorry for creating it

[Snafu3721]

I had always ranked YG roughly equal to GJ raw fighting capacity wise (although personally I think in an all out fight, I believe GJ would win...again this is IMO)

I felt GJ would eek out a win against GWM but that they were also equal capacity wise.

So naturally, I felt GJ > YG. Now I can see why JY included that statement in 3 ed. of HSDS where Z3F includes YG as someone who has equal profound internal as Z3F himself. I can also accept if anyone said YG = GJ... but that's it, nothing more.

I still feel the last few strikes delivered by YG to GWM was iffy and felt so contrived and rushed on JY's part... so I won't make any judgements about sad palms or YG being emo (I liked him as a character, but he still has that one emo flaw). But now I definitely have a new ranking scale for ROCH

It's as follows:

1) YG = GJ
2) GWM
3) ZBT loosing to GWM by a slight margin based on stats on paper. But believe GWM may still looseto/or break even with ZBT in a fight due to GWM's idiotic tendencies in a fight
3) Remaining Greats

I have effectively dropped GWM down a notch

[Snafu3721]

It's also fair to say Yang Guo is not better than GJ....

God, why do ppl waste their time on this useless topic?

Because coming at this topic from a new angle gave me new insight to ROCH. Which is the fun of discussions =)

P.S. I have read almost all the GJ vs YG threads. But somehow, this one got me thinking in a new way. Perhaps it's not so much YG vs GJ as Sad Palm vs other techniques

[tape]

I agree with your rankings completely, but I think we should quantify that the Old Greats and YG/GJ have a large discrepancy in power. It is larger than the QQR/Greats gap imo.

[Ken Cheng]

It's also fair to say Yang Guo is not better than GJ....

God, why do ppl waste their time on this useless topic?

それは仕方がないことができます。

それに耐えている必要があります。

Shikata ga nai.

[CancerLuna]

You forget that sad Yang Guo = Huang Yaoshi.

I think all greats would tie in friendly competitions. Their powers are just too equal and discrepancies would only appear in life or death matches.

IE.
Yideng/QQR - yideng only wins by a half move or so despite QQR supposedly subgreat.
GWM/QQR - took a day to severely wound QQR, this is with GWM being in the higher echelon of Greats and QQR being in the lower echelons of Greats

How would a few moves dictate who is the superior?

That passage just proves(to me), they are on the same tier.

I'd wager that even happy Yang Guo > Huang Yaoshi if it were a real fight.

[Western Eccentric]

Technique wise I think Sad Palm > Dragon Palm but the main problem is YG only have 1 arm which mean this "superiority" might be don't work against GJ Dragon Palm/L-R Hand skill 😔😔😔😔

[Ken Cheng]

Technique wise I think Sad Palm > Dragon Palm but the main problem is YG only have 1 arm which mean this "superiority" might be don't work against GJ Dragon Palm/L-R Hand skill 😔😔😔😔

Over the course of four different novels, Hong Lung 18 Palms was pretty well-defined. Conceptually, it's not at all complicated, and through its frequent appearances in four different stories, we pretty much knew how it worked.

Sad Palms, introduced towards the end of ROCH, used in only a few instances, never really fully explicated, and then never seen or discussed again, remains mostly a mystery.

[Western Eccentric]

Yeeep but ZBT very amazed with Sad Palm even he admit his skill was "inferior" (he say it to HR) which I think it's likely due to the bizzare/weird technique of Sad Palm that's why I say in terms of "technique" Sad Palm > Dragon Palm but too sad YG only have 1 arm so this superiority might be don't work against GJ Dragon Palm which infuse with 9 Yin skill and L/R hand skill..

[Ken Cheng]

Yeeep but ZBT very amazed with Sad Palm even he admit his skill was "inferior" (he say it to HR) which I think it's likely due to the bizzare/weird technique of Sad Palm that's why I say in terms of "technique" Sad Palm > Dragon Palm but too sad YG only have 1 arm so this superiority might be don't work against GJ Dragon Palm which infuse with 9 Yin skill and L/R hand skill..

Weirdness and novelty aren't necessarily winning qualities in combat techniques. Most likely, the user would end up like the guy with the sword here:

[Western Eccentric]

I mean Dragon Palm more "simpe" in terms of variation compare with Sad Palm which more "complex" that's why H7Q not worry to teach GJ 3 last stance of Dragon Palm in front of OYK since the technique/variation of Dragon Palm was very2 basic/ordinary even almost zero "trick"..

[FeilongZ]

Based on my analysis and opinion:
Standard Sad Palms is greater than dragon palms, technique-wise.
Power-wise, both are similar.

However, once full Sad Palms is unleashed, its techniques would greatly increased (increase unpredictableness and elusiveness).
Its power will also get a boost, exceeding dragron palms.