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Thread: Bu Bu Jing Xin Novel Discussion. (Lot's of Spoilers!)

  1. #61
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Hi Hoju/Plushie,

    Alright! Sounds like a plan. Can I pick a part of a chapter to start? Don't want to set up expectations too high- how about Chapter 6 part 1?

    BTW, Cutzie if you're interested we can share a Chapter!

    On the titles, I'm inclined to synthesize to "he has yet to attain the title of 'qin wang'" - which I think is the point of that thought! But I don't want to impose my less than educated views here!

    PS BTW, for the lurkers out there, if you're mandarin-enabled at all, you're very welcomed to jump in, pick a chapter or part thereof and start translating! If you're actually mandarin literate and can understand the poetry, then we're on our knees begging you to translate a poem or two for us! (So I can understand if nothing else! )

    Actually, considering those poems are 'real' (at least I assumed they are famous real Tang poesm) would there be posted professional translation of some of those around? Isn't the book "300 Tang Poems" (or something like that in translation!) very well known in academic circles?
    Last edited by yanfeng; 03-16-11 at 01:53 PM.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Plushie's Avatar
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    I just use....... really long footnotes..... XD I try to keep the pin-yin stuff to a minimum and use English words as much a possible. Hopefully the footnotes will explain enough.

    Yah guys please start translating! And maybe send them to me so I can put them together. That way there's at least some consistency with what I'm doing with the first chapter.

    Oh this is getting so exciting!

    And yes that sina link is missing a chunk of the novel at the end. You'll have to find an older version to finish it.
    Last edited by Plushie; 03-16-11 at 04:01 PM.

  3. #63
    Senior Member cutzie's Avatar
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    Yanfeng, I would love to share a chapter! Are we doing chapter 6 then? That's good for me too cause then I won't feel pressured to translate fast Just tell me which part you want me to start with Like everyone else, I'm a bit iffy on the princes titles and such. Maybe Plushie can post those footnotes she made or someone else can make an official list of the titles so we can all be consistent in our translation. Since I'm only translating part of a chapter, I'll be happy to QC too.

    This is exciting! I think I'm going to re-read the book from the beginning to prepare myself

  4. #64
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Cutzie, sounds good (and I'm excited too! Maybe I can improve my pitiful mandarin this way!)

    So it's settled, let's do Chapter 6, if you look at the link that Hoju provided it's divided into parts, I'm going to start on Chapter 6 part 1, you can pick a part too.

    I'm going to put in what I can on titles and such and perhaps you can check me for consistency with whatever Plushie has- though Plushie can collect and read over too for that. Hoju is our footnotes specialist.

    And I will continue to gently advertise this so we may pick up a fellow bilingual or two to join us.

    Remember this is just for fun, so no pressure ever, don't be too critical either of your own work or the work of fellow-amateur-translators and just live it up and ride the wave of Bu Bu Jing Xing fever!

  5. #65
    Senior Member Plushie's Avatar
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    Here, I've copy and pasted what I have so far in my footnotes on titles, hope it helps:


    1Orig. 侧福晋 ‘ce fujin’. ‘Fujin’ is the Manchurian word for wife or madam. ‘Ce’ means ‘side.’ ‘Ce fujin’ is ‘the wife who dwells in the side room’. In comparison to regular concubines, being a ‘Ce fujin’ is still a highly regarded position in the household as both 嫡福晋 ‘di fujin’ (First wife) and ‘ce fujin’ are officialised by the Ministry of Rites, and their names are added to the royal book. You also can have more than one ‘ce fujin’.

    2. Original word used: 亲王 ‘Qin Wang.’ The ‘Prince’ (Qin Wang) here is not the same as being called a prince by birthright, but rather, it could be translated as “Prince of the first rank” or “Prince of the blood.” It is a peerage title granted to male descendants in the royal family, and is the highest rank in the Qing peerage system. The first 4 ranks are usually given solely to direct male descendants of the Emperor, though exceptions are found. There are a total of 12 ranks for the imperial line. Because it’s an official title, I will be using Prince here with an upper case P.

    3. Original word used: 阿哥 ‘A’Ge’. In the Qing royal family, a young prince who has not yet been bestowed any title is known as A’Ge. Most of the time, the princes are not referred to by their actual first name (not even by the Emperor himself) but rather, their number then the word A’Ge. So as the 8th son, Yinsi is known as the Eighth A’Ge. I will continue to use the word prince (with a lower case p) here rather than A’Ge for easier reading.

    4.多罗贝勒 ‘duo’luo’bei’le’, often shortened to ‘Bei’le’, is a peerage title that can be bestowed to those within the royal family. It is the third rank in the Qing peerage system for the imperial line.

    and something extra on Ge'Ge

    Ge-Ge” (格格). In Manchurian, it literally means young mistress, or lady. It is a title you would call an unmarried noblewoman above a certain rank or before they are bestowed an official title by the Emperor. It does not mean princess like it is often used in Chinese dramas and novels. Before they are given titles, daughters of the Emperors are referred to as “gong zhu” (公主), as the Manchurians have adopted certain Ming customs after they established control over China. Thus calling direct female descendants of the Emperor Ge'Ge is actually degrading their status.
    Last edited by Plushie; 03-16-11 at 04:45 PM.

  6. #66
    Senior Member cutzie's Avatar
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    Yanfeng, ok. Since there are six parts, I'll start with part 4 and work my way to part 6. And I'll advertise a lot too so we can get more people Since there's no rush, I'm going to re-read the book from the beginning and translate chapter 6 when I get to it. Let the party begin!

    Plushie, those footnotes are helpful! Just a question, I know you said you're going to use Prince for 亲王 and prince for 阿哥, but for the other titles (多罗贝勒, 侧福晋, 格格) will you be using an English translation or the pinyin (Bei’le, Ce Fujin, Ge-Ge)?
    Last edited by cutzie; 03-16-11 at 04:57 PM.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Plushie's Avatar
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    Lol. Don't worry about it too much cutzie . Just start translating. The bulk of the text is more important. I'll look over all of you guys' stuff and change things (titles etc) accordingly. It's a bit easier that way for everyone.

  8. #68
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Hi, one quick check- are you gals translating in past or present tense.

    E.g.,

    "It was a sunny day ..." vs. "It is a sunny day...."

    Mandarin doesn't distinguish but I'm tempted to do past tense since it works more naturally in English, but can see going either way, just so we're consistent (more or less!).

    Let me know!

  9. #69
    Senior Member Hoju!'s Avatar
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    I started in Ch. 1 in present tense. I'm not sure why, since I normally translate Chinese to English in past tense. (I agree that it comes more naturally.) However, it's ultimately up to Plushie and what she does with Ch. 1. I'm doing present tense right now for Ch. 5, but if Plushie changes it to past tense, I'll go back and edit.
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  10. #70
    Senior Member Plushie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoju! View Post
    I'm not sure why, since I normally translate Chinese to English in past tense. (I agree that it comes more naturally.)
    .....................................

    Hoju you tell me this now?!?!
    I wanted to translate in the past tense so bad. The biggest reason it took me a lot longer than I could of is because I had to keep making sure I kept in present tense which sounds very very weird to me during translation..... (Pretty sure I had littered past tenses all over the place.) Like yanfeng says its jsut seems more natural in English.

    I kept it in present because you did present.
    Can I just keep everything I've done so far and just jump into past tense? Would that be weird?? ^^" I've already translated 3/4 of Chapter 1.... =O
    Bah.. I won't be lazy.....I'll go back to change it..... >.<"
    Last edited by Plushie; 03-17-11 at 02:21 PM.

  11. #71
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Hi gals,

    I'm glad I asked, but I don't think we should kill ourselves over the tense. Fans can deal. Plushie and Hoju, you two should finish what you have in whatever tense you have it, and then maybe we can agree to collectively switch to past tense because I do think it's easier/faster! (Hoju is that ok?)

    I suspect Tong Hua meant it to be present tense since it's entirely 1st person narrative (3rd person I think is where past tense is super natural... 1st person a little more gray.) But this is a fan-translation right? So we do whatever makes _us_ happy so long as we acknowledge and bow at the altar of Tong-Hua-worship!

    Really enjoying the translation process- sharpening my mandarin skills and flexing my english vocabulary at the same time. I love trying to get at the 'spirit' of the text rather than the direct translation- which I think is both challenging and aesthetically pleasing to try to do! Linguistic yumminess!

    Maybe this weekend my leisure activity will be tackling Chap 6 part 2... can't wait to get to Ruolan getting to strut her stuff at the horse tournament! I also like how 13th and Ruoxi get their little 'moments'! (Though I admit I also would love at some point to have 4th come into the picture, but I suspect we're not going to get to that point since he arrives in the story so late!)
    Last edited by yanfeng; 03-17-11 at 02:56 PM.

  12. #72
    Senior Member cutzie's Avatar
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    Glad we cleared up on the tenses cause I've been using past tense too

    Yanfeng, I just got your message! You're so fast! I was going to re-read the book from start but I think I'm just going to do the translation now. Actually I kind of am already doing that. I was reading chapter one but then I was just itching to translate so I skipped to Chapter 6 lol. I agree with you on the little moments between 13th and Ruoxi, they're so cute! My part actually starts with them drinking together and discussing "non-love" relationships between men and women.

    A little off-topic but I'm really happy that Yuan Hong is 13th. I think he's absolutely perfect for the role. Plus I loved him since Yang Warriors

  13. #73
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    Hoju kindly gave me this advice on translating certain repeated phrases-

    "For "qing an", I used something like "performed the ceremonious greeting". "Ji xiang," I hummed and hawed and thought about using "Blessings to ___." "

    I'm going to employ a range of translations but like the "ceremonial greeting" and "Blessings" idea a lot! Many thanks to Hoju!

    Cutzie, you and half the females in the world are happy about YH as 13th (that includes me and Tong Hua.... 5 cents if you guess who's the more important of the two! )... and the other half just haven't read Bu Bu yet!

    Also no rush- Plushie is doing the heavy lifting here, and i'm guessing Chaps 1-4 are going to take awhile, so we slackers get to go at a leisurely pace and look up every other word on google translate (well, at least that's half my time translating! I actually usually start with the google translated version )

    The more I read about 13th, the more I want Ruoxi to just be with him already!

    (BTW, do you guys know about the other Battle of the Nine Princes era time-travel novels that the tieba gals refer to? Somehow in some of them 9th prince is apparently given a lot of airtime and there are quite a few fans of him... so I'm curious! In Bu Bu, 9th prince just sounds scummy... his were the schemes that led to "the burning"- ouch!- and Ruoxi's miscarriage!)

  14. #74
    Senior Member ByTmE's Avatar
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    ^^ oh 9th sounds perfectly evil...evil Han Dong...I like.

    Thank you all, I will patiently await all of your combined efforts.
    I like me.

  15. #75
    Senior Member Plushie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanfeng View Post
    Hi all,

    Hoju kindly gave me this advice on translating certain repeated phrases-

    "For "qing an", I used something like "performed the ceremonious greeting". "Ji xiang," I hummed and hawed and thought about using "Blessings to ___." "

    I'm going to employ a range of translations but like the "ceremonial greeting" and "Blessings" idea a lot! Many thanks to Hoju!
    XD. I kept 'Ji xiang' as it is.

    We'll see how people feels after I post up chapter 1. XD

    lalalalala......

    I think you guys are way better translators already. =X LOL!

  16. #76
    Senior Member cutzie's Avatar
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    I'm finally done with part 4. All the stuff about Xi Kang at the end nearly killed me though

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanfeng View Post
    (BTW, do you guys know about the other Battle of the Nine Princes era time-travel novels that the tieba gals refer to? Somehow in some of them 9th prince is apparently given a lot of airtime and there are quite a few fans of him... so I'm curious! In Bu Bu, 9th prince just sounds scummy... his were the schemes that led to "the burning"- ouch!- and Ruoxi's miscarriage!)
    Personally, I've read 《梦回大清》and 《清空万里》. The former focuses on 13th as the main character, whereas the later focuses on 8th. In fact, I'm enjoying 《清空万里》because it's very different from the typical 'Battle' time-travel novels. Very little drama, and a lot of comedy. How can I resist the author's description of everything good, especially 8th?! 华丽丽!华丽丽!Even the hen is called '华丽状元‘.

    As for the ones that revolve around 9th, I've heard of 《情玄》and 《不辞冰雪为卿热》. I don't know how well-written they are though. *_* Haven't had time to read them. 《当你踏入清朝》is apparently quite good, but is unfinished at the present.

    As for 9th, he is traditionally portrayed as the 'bad guy' in most interpretations (i.e. the bad boy prince amongst his brothers). He loves women (had 6 wives and 3 concubines), was the wealthiest and was the most cruel/conniving/etc.
    Last edited by subdereality; 03-18-11 at 05:40 AM.

  18. #78
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Thanks for the recommendations Subde- I'm going to check a few of those out! (Though I admit I tried 《梦回大清 I thought the quality of that one was so-so! Besides which 13th is sort of dorky there... and I like my 13th cool! )

    I am somewhat surprised that 9th is generally thought ill of, because for some weird reasons during polls of "your favorite prince" over at baidu, a good number of people vote for 9th... so I'm puzzled because my view of 9th is what you laid out here!

    Cutzie, awesome on that part, and nice job Plushie that you finished the entire chapter! I'll crawl along, but hopefully by the time you publish Chap 5, Cutzie and I will be QC'ed and ready to go for Chap 6!

    BTW, are we starting a translation thread then? If so, we can do this in timed phases, e.g., Plushie you might want to publish parts of Chap 1, perhaps one part every 4 days or every other week, something like that- entirely your call on pacing! Just as a reader of fanfic and translations myself, I love having a schedule, even if it's slow, so I know when to come back and check for more! (I get discouraged if I check too often compared to the pace of posting, so we just have to set realistic expectations!)

    Happy almost weekend! (The weekend already for those of us lucky enough to be in Asia! )
    Last edited by yanfeng; 03-18-11 at 10:41 AM.

  19. #79
    Senior Member Hoju!'s Avatar
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    You guys are so fast! I feel like so slow now. I'm only 2/3 of the way through Ch.5(1). Haha... good thing I chose a later chapter.

    When I was doing wuxia translations on this forum, I remember the a translator asked readers whether they preferred less frequent updates but they would come in single, large installments (eg. an entire chapter) or more frequent updates but shorter installments. Although each had its supporters, in general, the readers liked the more frequent installments to get their "fix." I personally preferred to do updates consistently once every few days. It seemed to give me enough breather to get a short update done, but still frequent enough readers didn't start to lose interest.

    Yup yup. Let's start a translation thread. This one has too many spoilers. Academia? Wuxia (although it's not wuxia) tranlations? Or Off Topic?
    Last edited by Hoju!; 03-18-11 at 04:12 PM.
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  20. #80
    Senior Member Plushie's Avatar
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    I should have the entirety of chapter 1 up by the end of the week..... if all goes according to plan. Let's hope no tomatos are thrown at little o' moi when I do. >.<

    Anyways, I don't think I can keep up this pace.... Translating an entire chapter in less than 7 days is a bit too much. XD I think doing a section, maybe 2, of a chapter a week sounds more plausible.
    Last edited by Plushie; 03-18-11 at 04:26 PM.

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