How is it possible for a useless clown like Ma Guangzuo to have prestige a la GWM?

[PJ]

In ROCH, Ma Guangzuo was part of the "Mongolian Warriors" alongside GWM, Xiao Xiangzi, etc. Difference is that Ma is mostly useless. He can't fight and is pretty stupid. Why did Mongolian empire give someone like him a highly prestigious position?

[Ian Liew]

Maybe he was just good enough to beat the Mongol talent scouts, or maybe the talent scouts were fools or bribed. It's like how TVB can promote some artistes when they're nowhere near the level of Raymond Lam, Tavia Yeung etc... =)

[devilz91]

Maybe they didn't know how bad he was before, and he made a reputation for himself beating newbs around his area.

It's like how TVB can promote some artistes when they're nowhere near the level of Raymond Lam, Tavia Yeung etc... =)

...who seem to be nowhere near the level of TVB artistes from the 90s and earlier. I guess martial arts is not the only thing that deteriorates over time.

[Zhuge Liang]

In ROCH, Ma Guangzuo was part of the "Mongolian Warriors" alongside GWM, Xiao Xiangzi, etc. Difference is that Ma is mostly useless. He can't fight and is pretty stupid. Why did Mongolian empire give someone like him a highly prestigious position?

What one person can achieve is very limited. To achieve greatness on the scale on an empire, you have to rely and utilise many people and not just the best few. For example, the mongolians used the people/technology/culture etc of the people they conquered.

While Ma's skills were the lowest of the lot he was still head and shoulders above the majority of wulin. Even within that mercenary group there was a stark difference in their abilities. Being stupid is not really a bar to being appointed in a mainly combat role like his.

I think it depends on our definitions of useless. If he was useless then so was probably 95% of wulin.

As a plot device he was useful as he contrasted and highlighted the self-serving and vicious behaviour of the others when they did not aid Yang Guo at Passionless Valley despite the fact they were on the same team at that point. Although Ma's character could not always verbally expose the real agenda of the others it highlighted it was enough for the viewer/reader to see how nasty those people were.

[PJ]

While Ma's skills were the lowest of the lot he was still head and shoulders above the majority of wulin.

Not sure that's true. I thought Ma didn't even know martial arts. So he was more like below 95% of wulin.

As a plot device he was useful as he contrasted and highlighted the self-serving and vicious behaviour of the others when they did not aid Yang Guo at Passionless Valley despite the fact they were on the same team at that point. Although Ma's character could not always verbally expose the real agenda of the others it highlighted it was enough for the viewer/reader to see how nasty those people were.

Right, I understand that part.

[Ken Cheng]

He was a monstrously strong guy. Sometimes, all you really need is a brick.

[CancerLuna]

Considering 99% of the wuxia world are just civilians. The last 1% would be fighters. Greats would be in like the .001, so Ma Guangzuo having prestige isn't too strange.

[ChanceEncounter]

Considering 99% of the wuxia world are just civilians. The last 1% would be fighters. Greats would be in like the .001, so Ma Guangzuo having prestige isn't too strange.

Even smaller.

The Song Dynasty probably had around 150 million civilians. Of those, there were 5 greats. You do the math.

[PJ]

Considering 99% of the wuxia world are just civilians. The last 1% would be fighters. Greats would be in like the .001, so Ma Guangzuo having prestige isn't too strange.

Well, the 99% of civilians are not gonna be considered for prestige in Mongolian empire, so why even mention them.

Comparing Ma Guangzuo to his peers (Yin Kexi et al), Ma is clearly a joke.

There are useful people other than fighters, i.e. people with good brain. In any case, Ma Guangzuo was good at neither fighting nor thinking. I'm pretty sure Yang Tiexin can beat him up, and SPCNETers seem to agree.

[Zhuge Liang]

Not sure that's true. I thought Ma didn't even know martial arts. So he was more like below 95% of wulin.

Right, I understand that part.

Ok i haven't read the novel for that so i stand corrected if that is true. Was he like Daerba in that he was more of a brute strength fighter?

I think that we have a different view of what is good and what is not. If we look at the heroes meet for example, only a very small portion of all the people present could face up to GWM and his 2 disciples. I think what many ppl consider good is actually a minute fraction of wulin as a whole.

But in the series he seems to be a match for shitbags like Guo Fu, Wu brothers, who while crap are going to be present in a clash between the 2 sides and the latter 2 were kinda even in the running for the leadership of the beggar clan by the end of the series.

There are useful people other than fighters, i.e. people with good brain. In any case, Ma Guangzuo was good at neither fighting nor thinking. I'm pretty sure Yang Tiexin can beat him up, and SPCNETers seem to agree.

Sure there are advisors, artisans etc that the mongolians incorporated into their army but the department Ma was in was clearly the elite muscle power as distinct from the rank and file army members.

Being beat by Yang TieXin is nothing to be ashamed of imo. He knew the Yang family spear technique and while it does not compare that well in wulin standards it is the famous skill of a top Song general. If Ma is worthy to face him them imo that means he has at least the martial skills of a decent general (depending on YTX's personal skill level).

As the saying goes, a thousand troops are easy to come by but a general is rare. Now if you come across someone of general calibre (at least in fighting) then you should recruit him.

Note when GWM first met the new recruits, no one was sure of the precise skill level of the individuals, just they were worthy of mention and quickly they sought to establish the pecking order. I guess that he was not expelled after that meant the Khan felt he was decent enough or at least not crap enough to expel.

As a side note, did anyone notice that the Liu Yifei version of ROCH had the midget playing Ma... who was an oompa loompa from Charlies Chocolate Factory? If only there could be a 4th edition change that would alter his origins to match... XD