Should We Boycott some TV series?

[IPlayWow]

I will watch depending on whether the storytelling is good or not. I am open to different interpretations history as long as they stay within certain constraints like language, customs and historical timelines.

Not all Manchurians were evil and not all Han Chinese were good. Han Chinese fought and plotted against each other for hundreds of years and did terrible things to one another even before the Mongolians/Manchurian stepped into the picture. And don't get me on what the Chinese did to Korea in the ancient times.

Anyway, I don't think that we should boycott Qing series at all. They are a part of history and whether you like it or not, Manchurians ruled over the Han Chinese during that time. A lot of bad stuff may have been done but a lot of good things must have also happened or how could the Qing Dynasty lasted for so long? Compare it to the Mongolian's Yuan Dynasty which lasted much shorter when the Han Chinese couldn't take the oppression and rebelled. The Manchurians and Han Chinese eventually got along living together.

Are you denying that probably million of secret underground people existed at the time that wanted to destory the manchurian and restore power to han people? Secret society like the rose parade homiez and the heaven and earth soicety Modern day triad.

the han only live together with the manchurian because they were forced upon by force and nothing else.

yes i know not all is evil and not all is good but im only talking about the one that i pin pointed to and that is those evil manchurian prince that raped those little han girls.

Boycott any tv series that show manchurian prince as good looking and doing good thing.
boycott until there is justice for those little han girls.

as for the form of punishment.. because they are all dead...... well i have'nt really thought of that but something must be done for those little han girls to get their justice.

[kidd]

Are you denying that probably million of secret underground people existed at the time that wanted to destory the manchurian and restore power to han people? Secret society like the rose parade homiez and the heaven and earth soicety Modern day triad.

the han only live together with the manchurian because they were forced upon by force and nothing else.

The fact that the sects did not succeed in overthrowing the Qing Dynasty despite having supposedly 'millions' of members says a lot.

Maybe the Qing was not that bad after all and thus, these sects did not get enough support from the masses?

The Hans were successful in overthrowing the Mongolians, who couldn't they overthrow the Manchus?

yes i know not all is evil and not all is good but im only talking about the one that i pin pointed to and that is those evil manchurian prince that raped those little han girls..

To be fair, you have yet to pinpoint which Manchurian prince(s) did that. You just keep saying Manchurian prince raped Han girls.

[IPlayWow]

The fact that the sects did not succeed in overthrowing the Qing Dynasty despite having supposedly 'millions' of members says a lot.

Maybe the Qing was not that bad after all and thus, these sects did not get enough support from the masses?

The Hans were successful in overthrowing the Mongolians, who couldn't they overthrow the Manchus?


To be fair, you have yet to pinpoint which Manchurian prince(s) did that. You just keep saying Manchurian prince raped Han girls.

well what about the empress dowager?

no it was because the secret society and the mass han people were using sword and spear and sabre to fight while the manchurian have cannon and such. take not that the camrea can also used as a weapon. ever since the camera was introduced in the mainland back than, the han people thought it was used to capture soul.

the somewhat rich han people were too busy partying and having fun to care about the mass poor han people.

it would be like egg vs rock.

[Ian Liew]

You're saying boycott any Qing-Dynasty series which portrays any Manchu ruler as anything but a despotic evil rapist? That's just silly - even Han rulers were not exempt from evil - there's no way you can convince me that say, even Shunzhi (let's leave out Kangxi as it's too extreme an example), was a more evil man compared to say, Sui Yangdi, Wanli and Zhengde where women were concerned. If there was a particular emperor which we know was horrible and despotic, and he was cast in a great light, then you might choose not to watch it (I always did wonder if the series "Yong Zheng Huang Chao" was too politically correct and whether he really was as good as he was as it addressed every single grievance people had against him in the legends, but it was a great series, and could very well have been the correct story), but there's no way a blanket statement like that is even remotely fair or reasonable.

I can't imagine a single Chinese Emperor which I refuse to watch cast in a positive light at all - even Wanli had some really good years in his early reign, while Yongle, for all his ambition, was a talented man. The Qing emperors were actually fairly tame compared to some of the other Chinese (and Yuan Dynasty) emperors before them. The only one who really messed up big time was Xianfeng, and even then purely because he slept with Cixi and set her on her path to dominion of the Qing courts, rather than any particularly bad character flaw in him. Shunzhi was timid with a good heart (although court power was mainly in the hands of Dorgon), Kangxi is generally recognised as one of the best emperors, if not the best emperor (if he was Han there would be no debate, I think), ever, Yongzheng bit a hard bullet and built a firm adminstration while Qianlong, despite being a bit befuddled in his late years, was a benevolent and cultured emperor. The successors were weak, but none were really bad. Jiajing was weak and pampered by his father's long reign, but was never recorded as having indulged in the extremes some of the Song and Ming emperors did. Daoguang tried his best to combat the West and their Opium exports and like his father had a good strict Confucian ubringing which ensured they conducted their personal lives well. Xianfeng was easily manipulated by Cixi and spent his entire reign hemmed in by the Taiping rebellion, but I don't think he was a rapist either. Tongzhi, being just a puppet of his mother with no real power, was supposedly quite lewd, visiting brothels etc but he died too young to cement any reputation other than that of being Cixi's son (and a hilarious guest starring role in Stephen Chow's excellent "Hail the Judge"). Guangxu tried his best to restore the intellectual pursuits of the Chinese and educate them to liberalise themselves, and was killed by Cixi for it. Puyi could hardly be considered an emperor of any authority at all.

That's just my opinion, though I haven't exactly read in detail about some of those, but I can't see how as far as rape in concerned, that the Qing emperors were any worse than their predecessors. I do have a lot of beef with the Qing (e.g. on the lack of real modern Han clothing - it lost over 200 years of evolution due to Manchu fashion being adopted and looks so ancient even today) but but not on their personal moral conduct. Is there any particular emperor which makes you hate seeing any Manchu royalty painted in a non-evil light?

[charbydis]

There will always be anti-government organisation no matter how good the government is. But the majority of the common people actually gave up trying to get rid of the Manchurians because they lived a better quality life than when under the rule of the corrupted Ming Dynasty. The common people don't care about politics or rascim, they just want food in their stomachs.

The rascim was much less prominent under the intervention of Emperor Kang Xi's reign where Han and Manchu equality was requested by the government. Whereas under Mongolian rule, people were closely monitored and treated like slaves so they got together and rebelled. You can still have a rebellion armed with swords and spears. Mongolians had the best archers and calvalry units in the world at that time and yet they were repelled because the people had a cause to revolt. The Han Chinese under Qing rule did not have such a strong cause to make them revolt.

Anyway, back to the real debate topic, what would boycotting Qing series do? What effect would it have on Manchurians or Han Chinese? Nothing! After so many centuries, the two have already assimilated in both culture and looks via marriage and lifestyle. The past is the past.

[IPlayWow]

Anyway, back to the real debate topic, what would boycotting Qing series do? What effect would it have on Manchurians or Han Chinese? Nothing! After so many centuries, the two have already assimilated in both culture and looks via marriage and lifestyle. The past is the past.

are you trying to say that we should let the evil get away with what they have done?

[charbydis]

are you trying to say that we should let the evil get away with what they have done?

Well, will boycotting Qing series help get the message through?

I get if it you want to protest outside parliament house about this to see if some Manchurian represenative would like to apologize for their ancestor's past misdeeds but boycotting Qing series won't get the message through.

[Cesare]

I so hope IPlayWow is kidding...

[happyswallow]

I so hope IPlayWow is kidding...

no dude he isn't. you should've seen in the other forums in the Mainland series section where he was trying to argue with someone else using the example of Wei Xiao Bao while that person was using examples of scholars like Jonathan Spence. Funniest thing ever.

@IPlayWow
Please get it through your head that not all of these Han rulers/people were as great as you make them out to be. Rape and other inhumane acts occur in every race and every ethnicity, not just these Manchu rulers you're so adamant in fighting against.
I'm going to repeat what lots of other people have said. Qing dynasty had three of the greatest emperors in Chinese history. Kangxi and Qianlong were both cultured emperors and the arts flourished under them. Yongzheng was very hardworking and increased the country's treasury. A simple search on wikipedia will tell you this, but it seems all your energy is focused on unreliable 'facts'.

No one even knows which 'evil manchurian princes' you're talking about. If you're so gung-ho about seeking justice for others, how about directing your energy towards human rights efforts in modern China today instead? The Communist Party has oppressed, tortured, raped, and killed countless people whom it deems a 'threat'. This may be more time relevant and something better to go on versus 'Evil manchurian princes raping little han girls.'

[cutzie]

IPlayWow, there's something I just don't understand. You said Wei Xiaobao is ok because he belongs to the Heaven and Earth society. But he raped 7 women! Yes, taking advantage of someone when they're unconscious and have no way to resist and did not give their consent equals rape. Society back then forced the women to accept their situation and become his wives, but that does not mean that it is alright. Here you are, boycotting all series about Manchurian princes because some unknown prince (you still haven't answer my question about which specific prince, which makes me think that you just don't know) rape Han girls, but are apparently alright with a Han guy raping 7 women. If we should boycott all series about Manchurian princes then we should also boycott all series about Han guys and the Heaven and Earth society.

Also, you mentioned that no one knows what's accurate or not in history. But we do have historians and history books. We can get a fairly good idea. I can't buy in your claim that just because one has power, then one has to abuse it (which means raping girls for some reason). Who is this "someone else" that you're getting your information from? If you are right, however, then it doesn't limit to Manchurian princes alone. Han princes, or anyone prince/king in history would fall under the category of those in power. Why are you targeting the Manchus alone?

@kidd, what I said about the princes (the part that you quoted) was actually according to history, not the series. In the series (stop reading if you don't want any spoilers), the girl actually left the prince she was in love with because she couldn't stand the bad side of him.

[IPlayWow]

IPlayWow, there's something I just don't understand. You said Wei Xiaobao is ok because he belongs to the Heaven and Earth society. But he raped 7 women! Yes, taking advantage of someone when they're unconscious and have no way to resist and did not give their consent equals rape. Society back then forced the women to accept their situation and become his wives, but that does not mean that it is alright. Here you are, boycotting all series about Manchurian princes because some unknown prince (you still haven't answer my question about which specific prince, which makes me think that you just don't know) rape Han girls, but are apparently alright with a Han guy raping 7 women. If we should boycott all series about Manchurian princes then we should also boycott all series about Han guys and the Heaven and Earth society.

Also, you mentioned that no one knows what's accurate or not in history. But we do have historians and history books. We can get a fairly good idea. I can't buy in your claim that just because one has power, then one has to abuse it (which means raping girls for some reason). Who is this "someone else" that you're getting your information from? If you are right, however, then it doesn't limit to Manchurian princes alone. Han princes, or anyone prince/king in history would fall under the category of those in power. Why are you targeting the Manchus alone?

@kidd, what I said about the princes (the part that you quoted) was actually according to history, not the series. In the series (stop reading if you don't want any spoilers), the girl actually left the prince she was in love with because she couldn't stand the bad side of him.

How can you compare a fictional character to someone real life in history?? Wow I guess the history books you read is even more not so reiliable than mine.

Wei Xiao Bao is a fictional character created by jin yong. and he really didn't rape those girls. they became his wife. toward the end of the story they were all happy for him.

So I have no idea where you read that wei xiao bao is real. your history books are so amazing ay???

those little han girls wasn't so happy after being raped by the manchurian evil prince. that's also a different.

[devilz91]

How can you compare a fictional character to someone real life in history?? Wow I guess the history books you read is even more not so reiliable than mine.

Wei Xiao Bao is a fictional character created by jin yong. and he really didn't rape those girls. they became his wife. toward the end of the story they were all happy for him.

So I have no idea where you read that wei xiao bao is real. your history books are so amazing ay???

those little han girls wasn't so happy after being raped by the manchurian evil prince. that's also a different.

Cliffnotes: It's ok to rape someone as long as they like it.

[cutzie]

How can you compare a fictional character to someone real life in history?? Wow I guess the history books you read is even more not so reiliable than mine.

Wei Xiao Bao is a fictional character created by jin yong. and he really didn't rape those girls. they became his wife. toward the end of the story they were all happy for him.

So I have no idea where you read that wei xiao bao is real. your history books are so amazing ay???

those little han girls wasn't so happy after being raped by the manchurian evil prince. that's also a different.

I know Wei xiao bao is not real, but I'm using the example that you first started.

Wong Fei Hong is fine cause that have nothing to do with the people in the palace. Wong Fei hong was trying to save the mainland while evil manchurian were corrupting it. look at how the Dowager empress was corrupted and stuff.

Wei Xiao bao is fine too because he was also friend with the heave and earth society. but as for anything relating manchurian prince, all they did was put the han people in pain. that is why the han people created the heaven and earth society to get rid of the evil manchurian.

I don't care if wei xiao bao or wong fei hong is real or not

First you used a fictional character to defend your case, then you said it doesn't matter if he's fictional or not when someone discredits you. Now you're saying we can't use him as an example because he's fictional. Hmmm, is that hypocrisy I smell in the air?

Also if you read what I wrote, then yes, he did rape those women.

Yes, taking advantage of someone when they're unconscious and have no way to resist and did not give their consent equals rape. Society back then forced the women to accept their situation and become his wives, but that does not mean that it is alright.

Those girls have to accept the way things were back then because that was how they're raised, they didn't know better. But we, in modern society, does. Or at least I do. I can't speak for you.

By the way, I notice that you pick and choose parts that you want to reply to. Why can't you answer all of our questions? Is it because you don't know the answer to them? Tell us this, before you start on anything else, why are you targeting the Manchus alone when, according to your theory, those who have power will abuse it? Why not include other ethnics who also abuse their power? Do you believe then that all Han princes are upright and moral?

[Banh Mi]

$this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110721211906/potcoplayers/images/5/56/Please-dont-feed-the-trolls.jpg')

[IPlayWow]

I know Wei xiao bao is not real, but I'm using the example that you first started.




First you used a fictional character to defend your case, then you said it doesn't matter if he's fictional or not when someone discredits you. Now you're saying we can't use him as an example because he's fictional. Hmmm, is that hypocrisy I smell in the air?

Also if you read what I wrote, then yes, he did rape those women.



Those girls have to accept the way things were back then because that was how they're raised, they didn't know better. But we, in modern society, does. Or at least I do. I can't speak for you.

By the way, I notice that you pick and choose parts that you want to reply to. Why can't you answer all of our questions? Is it because you don't know the answer to them? Tell us this, before you start on anything else, why are you targeting the Manchus alone when, according to your theory, those who have power will abuse it? Why not include other ethnics who also abuse their power? Do you believe then that all Han princes are upright and moral?

if you're gonna quote me... why not copy and paste the whoe line of sentence. you only copy half.

and why im taking it out on the manchurian.... well because i started out talking about the manchurian. if you wanna talk about another race than go make a new thread and i'll be happy to debate with you.


please copy and paste everything in a post if you're gonna quote someone. I notice you only copy and paste some words or line and than use them against the other person. I'm pretty sure the original post that i posted was longer than all you copied and pasted.


Banh Mi your post have nothing to do with the topic. someone please remove that picture.

[cutzie]

if you're gonna quote me... why not copy and paste the whoe line of sentence. you only copy half.

and why im taking it out on the manchurian.... well because i started out talking about the manchurian. if you wanna talk about another race than go make a new thread and i'll be happy to debate with you.


please copy and paste everything in a post if you're gonna quote someone. I notice you only copy and paste some words or line and than use them against the other person. I'm pretty sure the original post that i posted was longer than all you copied and pasted.


Banh Mi your post have nothing to do with the topic. someone please remove that picture.

I only copy what was relevant to the discussion. I did not change the meaning of your words by only copying the relevant parts but if you want to say that I did, then you can copy your entire post here to prove that.

However, I find it useless to "debate" with you any further. You refused to address the issues that the people here bought up and merely continued to repeat the same things over and over, with no real solid facts to back them up. And looking at the poll, it seems you convinced no one.

[IPlayWow]

I only copy what was relevant to the discussion. I did not change the meaning of your words by only copying the relevant parts but if you want to say that I did, then you can copy your entire post here to prove that.

However, I find it useless to "debate" with you any further. You refused to address the issues that the people here bought up and merely continued to repeat the same things over and over, with no real solid facts to back them up. And looking at the poll, it seems you convinced no one.

one light of hope is still better than nothing.

I guess those little han girls will never get their justice as long as there are people like you supporting what the evil have done. and watching series that portray them to be good.

[cutzie]

one light of hope is still better than nothing.

I guess those little han girls will never get their justice as long as there are people like you supporting what the evil have done. and watching series that portray them to be good.

Ok, that's just a horrible thing to say and I wished that you wouldn't attack others' characters just because they don't agree with you. If you would only say which specific prince raped the girls and back it up with historical references and facts, then tell me which series portray them as good then yes, I will join you in boycotting that series. But no, I am not going to boycott every TV series about Manchurian princes because of what one unknown prince may or may not have done. So if believing that you shouldn't condemned an entire race because of one person is "supporting what the evil have done," then hell here I come.

[kidd]

Wei Xiao Bao is a fictional character created by jin yong. and he really didn't rape those girls. they became his wife. toward the end of the story they were all happy for him.

Doesn't matter what happen later. What he did at that time on the bed was rape. Him marrying the girls afterward does not nullify that fact.

those little han girls wasn't so happy after being raped by the manchurian evil prince. that's also a different.

Ah Ke wasn't happy after being raped by Wei Xiao Bao either.

[charbydis]

Is there any point to keep this debate thread open as there are no facts to base the argument on?