Should We Boycott some TV series?

[IPlayWow]

SS gave a very good answer.

IPlayWow, not sure if you've ever played or seen a word passing game. It's a game that involves several people, and their responsibility is to pass the same message down from person to person.

Guess what? The message nearly always get distorted halfway through because people don't remember word-to-word, and when a detail gets forgotten, the best they could do is to fill it up with at their best of ability. That means they could be adding the wrong details in, thus distorting the message. These things seem better remembered when passed down as poems and songs. XD!

You never answered one of my first questions, which is "what do you really know about real history". Yes, history of those days weren't shot in cam so nothing is clear cut. The only comfort we have is that the people who wrote them are SCHOLARS who actually studied them. I'm not so sure about your friends.

And you have to differentiate between the societies of those days compared to now. I mean, you are mixing around with the underworld?

And btw, how do you know for sure if Xun Yu really did that for real? No live streaming videos to prove your case. If you are basing it off on the teleseries, then the argument is as moot as you said Wei Xiaobao's is.

about xun yu... i don't know anything beside sawing what the actor who play him in 2010 three kingdoms. I was inspired by what he said about who will stand up for justice and all that....

So words of Triad Gangster aka the desendant of the heaven and earth society are not as good as those words by the scholar?

I'm sure those manchurian prince have alot of money to hire good scholar to write good things about them.

because we're talking about a time that there were no camera technology. it is hard to believe anything anyway either words from great scholar or great people that wanted to save the land from tyranical rule by the evil manchurian.

[charbydis]

Just wondering, how old are you, IPlayWow? Hanging around gangsters all day long isn't the best way to go! The Heaven & Earth Society might be righteous and soso but the triads now are involved in a lot of illegal activities. They no longer hold the same values and are a danger to society. So my advice to you, is to keep away!

And as for your argument about no cameras, you are right that is no way to prove exactly what happened in history, but that also supports that there is no way that your version from your gangster friends about Manchurian princes raping Han girls is exactly correct. Only the people back then will know the whole truth so neither you or I are qualified to further argue on this because we do not know the whole truth.

So why not end this thread if there is no way to prove a conclusion?

[junny]

about xun yu... i don't know anything beside sawing what the actor who play him in 2010 three kingdoms. I was inspired by what he said about who will stand up for justice and all that....

So words of Triad Gangster aka the desendant of the heaven and earth society are not as good as those words by the scholar?

I'm sure those manchurian prince have alot of money to hire good scholar to write good things about them.

because we're talking about a time that there were no camera technology. it is hard to believe anything anyway either words from great scholar or great people that wanted to save the land from tyranical rule by the evil manchurian.

So people should believe you because... you love little Han girls?

[IPlayWow]

Just wondering, how old are you, IPlayWow? Hanging around gangsters all day long isn't the best way to go! The Heaven & Earth Society might be righteous and soso but the triads now are involved in a lot of illegal activities. They no longer hold the same values and are a danger to society. So my advice to you, is to keep away!

And as for your argument about no cameras, you are right that is no way to prove exactly what happened in history, but that also supports that there is no way that your version from your gangster friends about Manchurian princes raping Han girls is exactly correct. Only the people back then will know the whole truth so neither you or I are qualified to further argue on this because we do not know the whole truth.

So why not end this thread if there is no way to prove a conclusion?

. I don't hang out with gangster.. . I just like to listen to his story her story and so on... and i met them while playing wow...

by the way not all gangster all bad. don't judge a book by it cover.

"So why not end this thread if there is no way to prove a conclusion? ?"

There is no proof but since those story mean so much and it's for a good cause of getting justice for those little han girls so why should I stop? just because of not enough facts to support those story...

I believe what I'm doing is the right thing and for a good cause so I will not stop.


junny? your question is not really related to the topic. I'm doing this for justice.

By the way junny may god have mercy on you for putting all hail satan in your signature.

[remember_Cedric]

I protest against playing WoW, because the storyline mentions orcs pillaged human villages and killed little boys. I demand justice for those humans that were mistreated by orcs.

Yittzie, go create another thread for that debate..... btw, i demand justice for all the orcs for often being portrayed as evil species. not all orcs are bad; don't judge their (horrible) looks by its cover.

Disclaimer: I don't hang out with orcs.

. I don't hang out with gangster.. . I just like to listen to his story her story and so on... and i met them while playing wow...

by the way not all gangster all bad. don't judge a book by it cover.

"So why not end this thread if there is no way to prove a conclusion? ?"

There is no proof but since those story mean so much and it's for a good cause of getting justice for those little han girls so why should I stop? just because of not enough facts to support those story...

I believe what I'm doing is the right thing and for a good cause so I will not stop.


junny? your question is not really related to the topic. I'm doing this for justice.

By the way junny may god have mercy on you for putting all hail satan in your signature.

May God enlightened you and grant you some wisdom - that 'hail satan' signature is purely a humorous context extracted out from some literature (I think) books. It's not advocating/encouraging (or...run out of vocab) anyone in any manner to "hail lucie (aka satan)" for real.

[kidd]

Yittzie, go create another thread for that debate..... btw, i demand justice for all the orcs for often being portrayed as evil species. not all orcs are bad; don't judge their (horrible) looks by its cover.

Disclaimer: I don't hang out with orcs.

Orcs are not real. Manchurian princes and little Han girls were.

[Ian Liew]

Orcs are not real. Manchurian princes and little Han girls were.

Unless the only ones you know are those from the serials!!

[Guo Xiang]

I'm sure those manchurian prince have alot of money to hire good scholar to write good things about them.

Oh really? Then why is it that Cixi have such bad press? If she's got enough money for extravagance so paying scholars to write good stuff about her should be easy, right? How come that didn't happen? Qing emperors who didn't do well at certain point of times didn't get praised for their lacklustre performance, did they? There are lots of bad rulers around in this world, and most have the money and power to get scholars to write good stuff about them. But hey, we all know what they did, to a certain extent. Why is that?

At the end, time is the final victor. Once these rulers are gone, there's nothing stopping the scholars. Like for example, I'm a scholar studying on Qing Dynasty. You think those mean and evil Manchurian princes are coming to 'punish' me for writing bad stuff about them, or 'pay' me to write good stuff about them? :\

So words of Triad Gangster aka the desendant of the heaven and earth society are not as good as those words by the scholar?

After reading your following response regarding these friends of yours:

. I don't hang out with gangster.. . I just like to listen to his story her story and so on... and i met them while playing wow...

I'd say 'YES'. lol

Do you even know who those guys are? And you take their words for it? Do they even provide you with any substantial evidence or whatsoever? Seriously.

[kidd]

Oh really? Then why is it that Cixi have such bad press? If she's got enough money for extravagance so paying scholars to write good stuff about her should be easy, right? How come that didn't happen? Qing emperors who didn't do well at certain point of times didn't get praised for their lacklustre performance, did they? There are lots of bad rulers around in this world, and most have the money and power to get scholars to write good stuff about them. But hey, we all know what they did, to a certain extent. Why is that?

I have to agree on this. Even Emperor Yongzheng (who has a lot of good points on him like hardworking, reducing corruption, filling up government treasury again) has a lot of bad records on him and some were worse than 'raping little Han girls' such as exhuming the corpse of Lu Liu Liang to be beaten and executing his innocent descendants (a lot of them) over some writing that the dead man has done. All these got records. There's even unofficial rumours about Yongzheng changing the will of his father. Emperor Tong Zhi was rumoured to have died of STD. But, no one knows about this Manchurian princes raping little Han girls?

You can argue that because the China at that time was ruled by the Manchus, The Heaven and Earth Sect has to pass this info down within the sect. But, what about after the downfall of the Qing Dynasty? What's stopping them from revealing all to the world?

[kidd]

Ok, to be fair to IPlayWow, I do search for info on Manchu royalty raping Han girls.

The only info I can find is this article. Anyone interested can read it.

http://club.kdnet.net/dispbbs.asp?bo...3527653&page=1

[cutzie]

Yes I read the history book from my friend from their triad friends, but it not really reading, it's more of story telling over and over pass down from generation to generation. so yes they said all evil manchurian prince.

CUTZIE if you're gonna dis prove them than let me ask you. how can you be sure that the history book you're reading from is 100 percently accurate??

there was no technology at the time to prove all of that? camera and such... there was only people writing books and drawing picture. and people that seen what happen and telling it down to other people and passing on and on to generation after generation.



so you think only people like college professor can be trustworthy?

and not people in triad gangster? << former heaven and earth society.



whoeever said protesting wow?? wow is a made up video games. I'm not even sure if orc exist or not.


happyswallow.... in xun yu time there was no forum like this so he had to do it in public.

beside this forum can get the words out to millions of people. so what the different if i talk here or in public?? my goal is the same. you think i can get more people to listen when i speak about this in public or here?


isn't this the whole point of having a forum online? so we can talk and stuff about it.

Guo Xiang had made a really good point so I'm not going to repeat the things she said. I just want to get this clear. So the information you're basing your whole argument on is from the people you met online while playing WoW, who you have never met before, who claimed that they are in a triad which descend from the Heaven and Earth society? That actually made a lot of sense actually...of why you're so delusional.

[IPlayWow]

Guo Xiang had made a really good point so I'm not going to repeat the things she said. I just want to get this clear. So the information you're basing your whole argument on is from the people you met online while playing WoW, who you have never met before, who claimed that they are in a triad which descend from the Heaven and Earth society? That actually made a lot of sense actually...of why you're so delusional.

Oh so if I takes words from gang bangers, I'm a delusional person? So only words from scholar counts?

[Suet Seung]

IPlayWoW

You read and understand what you want.

Repost

Manchurian people had some good and bad people. It's not Manchurian princes that rape Han girls. It is men who rape women. Certain types of men from all kinds of ethnicity with no morals and self-control can succumb to their animal desires and force themselves on nonconsenting women. Whether they be men during the Warring States, Jin, Mongolian, Tang, Han, Song, Yuan, Ming, Manchurian or from any country, there will be certain pond scum type men who give other men a bad name by doing physical harm to women. Likewise, there are some women in history that tormented and done cruel things to men. However, no man or woman is the same as all men and women. So people can't really say all Manchurian princes are to blame for all crimes against Han girls. Are they evil just merely because they're Manchurian princes? Surely those Manchurian princes who died at under the age of 15 or younger can't do such things to Han girls.

What history do you know of besides the ones displayed onscreen through TV serials? If you're going about all this as "All ravens are black" and there's no exception kind of thing, then it just proves that your cup is filled up to the brim and cannot receive anything more. Besides, the reign of the Qing dynasty is long gone, so when the Qing dynasty rule ended, all the justice for what good or bad they did, its already been paid in full. No need to seek more justice.

BTW, All the "Evil manchurian princes" are already dead, what can you do to the dead? Beat the bones? I'm sure they'll turn to ash by now.

Descendants shouldn't pay for what their ancestors did, they weren't a part of what was done in the past.

If directors or movie makers make tv series/movies about them, it's their choice. It's FICTION, they're not making a documentary. So people watching the tv series is not going to believe everything to be the complete truth. Fiction is fiction. Hell, Maybe I should protest Harry Potter filling minds of little kids with stuff like jumping chocolate frogs and relying on magic when they can work for what they want.

[remember_Cedric]

Oh so if I takes words from gang bangers, I'm a delusional person?

No.

So only words from scholar counts?

Not exactly.

I think the point is, you need to make sure whoever you're listening to are of sane mind.

[IPlayWow]

Manchurian people had some good and bad people. It's not Manchurian princes that rape Han girls. It is men who rape women. Certain types of men from all kinds of ethnicity with no morals and self-control can succumb to their animal desires and force themselves on nonconsenting women. Whether they be men during the Warring States, Jin, Mongolian, Tang, Han, Song, Yuan, Ming, Manchurian or from any country, there will be certain pond scum type men who give other men a bad name by doing physical harm to women. Likewise, there are some women in history that tormented and done cruel things to men. However, no man or woman is the same as all men and women. So people can't really say all Manchurian princes are to blame for all crimes against Han girls. Are they evil just merely because they're Manchurian princes? Surely those Manchurian princes who died at under the age of 15 or younger can't do such things to Han girls.

What history do you know of besides the ones displayed onscreen through TV serials? If you're going about all this as "All ravens are black" and there's no exception kind of thing, then it just proves that your cup is filled up to the brim and cannot receive anything more. Besides, the reign of the Qing dynasty is long gone, so when the Qing dynasty rule ended, all the justice for what good or bad they did, its already been paid in full. No need to seek more justice.

For the top part about men raping women, I think you should make another topic thread regarding that and I will be happy to join the disccusion/debate.

For the second part about what is there to seek justice for because all of the qing dynasty are dead....

Well if one evil person did something wrong and died and have nothing, no power, no reputation or anything, than I guess there really is nothing justice left to go after....

But since this is a whole dynasty full of people....not only that but there names are known throughout the land and some of them who are still being written in history book as great emperor this and that. So just because they all died doesn't mean there can't be something to go after...
they did have power, they did have reputation and are known throughtout the land for whatever good they did but doesn't mean we should deny all the bad and evil they did.

How about mentioning in the history books that those manchurian prince also did something evil....raping little han girls instead of just telling the reader / researcher that oh well some of them become emperor and did good for the land. I guess that would be the only form of justice and punishment left for this kind of case...or that's all I could really think of for now as far as seeking justice for the dead goes....

[Suet Seung]

For the top part about men raping women, I think you should make another topic thread regarding that and I will be happy to join the disccusion/debate.

For the second part about what is there to seek justice for because all of the qing dynasty are dead....

Well if one evil person did something wrong and died and have nothing, no power, no reputation or anything, than I guess there really is nothing justice left to go after....

But since this is a whole dynasty full of people....not only that but there names are known throughout the land and some of them who are still being written in history book as great emperor this and that. So just because they all died doesn't mean there can't be something to go after...
they did have power, they did have reputation and are known throughtout the land for whatever good they did but doesn't mean we should deny all the bad and evil they did.

How about mentioning in the history books that those manchurian prince also did something evil....raping little han girls instead of just telling the reader / researcher that oh well some of them become emperor and did good for the land. I guess that would be the only form of justice and punishment left for this kind of case...or that's all I could really think of for now as far as seeking justice for the dead goes....

You don't get the point I'm making and all I wrote is on topic, my dear. Why are you after only the Manchurian princes? What about all the other men from other royal families and rulers who had soldiers who ransack villages and rape women and kill people's husbands and children/brothers/sisters?

Being Manchurian prince doesn't automatically make them evil or bad. Remove the princely title or their ethnicity as Manchurian, they are STILL MEN with lustful desires. If you want to blame anyone, it is those shameful men who rape women. We educate men and women social morals and etc so they don't go raping people.

In case you still don't understand. The Manchurian princes you call rapist, when you remove their princely title and their ethnicity, they're JUST MEN. How come you're not asking for justice when Han men rape women of their own Han ethnicity? Or how Manchurian men might rape other Manchurian women? It doesn't matter what their ethnicity or being born in royal palace, they're still MEN. Do you understand?

[IPlayWow]

You don't get the point I'm making and all I wrote is on topic, my dear. Why are you after only the Manchurian princes? What about all the other men from other royal families and rulers who had soldiers who ransack villages and rape women and kill people's husbands and children/brothers/sisters?

Being Manchurian prince doesn't automatically make them evil or bad. Remove the princely title or their ethnicity as Manchurian, they are STILL MEN with lustful desires. If you want to blame anyone, it is those shameful men who rape women. We educate men and women social morals and etc so they don't go raping people.

I'm only after them because so far that's the only story I heard. and I made this topic thread just for them.. if you wanna talk about other men than I'll be happy to discuss it with you when you make a new thread... bring on the discussion. bring on the debate.

[Ian Liew]

Oh so if I takes words from gang bangers, I'm a delusional person? So only words from scholar counts?

There's a difference between a gangster and a gang banger, and you should learn it before you accidentally offend your gangster friends. These are the same friends who claimed that they never won money at a casino, went to church and prayed, and then won 10 grand? It pays to be more skeptical about things you hear.

For the top part about men raping women, I think you should make another topic thread regarding that and I will be happy to join the disccusion/debate.

For the second part about what is there to seek justice for because all of the qing dynasty are dead....

Well if one evil person did something wrong and died and have nothing, no power, no reputation or anything, than I guess there really is nothing justice left to go after....

But since this is a whole dynasty full of people....not only that but there names are known throughout the land and some of them who are still being written in history book as great emperor this and that. So just because they all died doesn't mean there can't be something to go after...
they did have power, they did have reputation and are known throughtout the land for whatever good they did but doesn't mean we should deny all the bad and evil they did.

How about mentioning in the history books that those manchurian prince also did something evil....raping little han girls instead of just telling the reader / researcher that oh well some of them become emperor and did good for the land. I guess that would be the only form of justice and punishment left for this kind of case...or that's all I could really think of for now as far as seeking justice for the dead goes....

Actually, go and do it. Get a few friends, start a project a petition, a blog, whatever. Do research, make trips to China and excavate graves, interview people, find proof and substantiate what you're claiming, and get the history books changed to include those sorry chapters you insist happened. That would be a positive thing which demands respect at the very least. Advising people to boycott any fiction serial depicting Manchurian royalty as anything other than rapists is just, frankly, absurd and irrelevant. It's like saying to boycott World of Warcraft because everyone who plays it is either delusional, stubborn, misinformed, gullible, incoherent, naive, difficult to communicate with or a combination of the above. It's just absurd.

[cutzie]

For the top part about men raping women, I think you should make another topic thread regarding that and I will be happy to join the disccusion/debate.

For the second part about what is there to seek justice for because all of the qing dynasty are dead....

Well if one evil person did something wrong and died and have nothing, no power, no reputation or anything, than I guess there really is nothing justice left to go after....

But since this is a whole dynasty full of people....not only that but there names are known throughout the land and some of them who are still being written in history book as great emperor this and that. So just because they all died doesn't mean there can't be something to go after...
they did have power, they did have reputation and are known throughtout the land for whatever good they did but doesn't mean we should deny all the bad and evil they did.

How about mentioning in the history books that those manchurian prince also did something evil....raping little han girls instead of just telling the reader / researcher that oh well some of them become emperor and did good for the land. I guess that would be the only form of justice and punishment left for this kind of case...or that's all I could really think of for now as far as seeking justice for the dead goes....

Have you actually read a history book? Because if you have, you'll find that they list both the good and bad sides of the emperors and princes. At least good, creditable history books do. If, according to you, the emperors paid scholars to write only good stuff about them, then how are historians able to know about the bad stuff that they did. Do some research to backup your claims, IPlayWow, because then you'll know that some of the stuffs you said are not true at all.

[IPlayWow]

Have you actually read a history book? Because if you have, you'll find that they list both the good and bad sides of the emperors and princes. At least good, creditable history books do. If, according to you, the emperors paid scholars to write only good stuff about them, then how are historians able to know about the bad stuff that they did. Do some research to backup your claims, IPlayWow, because then you'll know that some of the stuffs you said are not true at all.

You said historians... meaning more than one person meaning whoever wrote the good things must be paid by the manchurian emperor and prince. those who never got paid will say something else. so it is obvious. and when someone else who read about both the good and the bad. they decide to write another book including both the good and the bad. and than in the future when the books are revised by someone else, they will include more and more info or in some case less info.