《大漠谣》 Da Mo Yao Novel Discussion (SPOILER WARNING!)

[koolangel297]

Let me join in the discussion.
Finished reading the novel for the nth time and I'm still in love with HQB.
Definitely someone worth idolizing over, especially since Tong Hua made him faultless in the novel.

[H.Ge-C.Liu]

Let me join in the discussion.
Finished reading the novel for the nth time and I'm still in love with HQB.
Definitely someone worth idolizing over, especially since Tong Hua made him faultless in the novel.

Agreed. Although she still included some mistakes that he made in there, e.g. making his soldiers dig football fields (which is historically accurate).

[koolangel297]

Agreed. Although she still included some mistakes that he made in there, e.g. making his soldiers dig football fields (which is historically accurate).

Yep, but Tong Hua made excuses for his actions, regarding the soccer fields:

霍去病笑着俯身帮我把褥子捋平，“起先我们说话时，你提到高祖皇帝手下的韩信，文帝景帝手下的周亚夫，夸他 们军纪严明，这些都不错。韩信手下的士兵被韩信训练得只知韩信，不知皇帝，周亚夫手下的兵士也是如此，说军 中只能以将军马首是瞻，把皇帝堵在兵营外，皇上的命令也不肯执行。他们都是盛誉显赫的名将，可他们的下场是 什么？舅父待人宽厚，律己甚严，在军中的风评也很好，很得兵心，可皇上如今对他……”他停下手中动作，摇摇 头未再多语。
　　我默默坐了会，叹道：“明白了，孙子讲得都对，却漏掉了很重要的一点，没有教那些将军打完胜仗后，功劳 越来越高时，如何保住自己的脑袋。古往今来，打胜仗的将军不少，能安身而退的却没有几个。”
　　霍去病坐到我身旁，笑着点点头，“那些兵丁在军营里不敢直接张口唾骂，但暗地里肯定对我有怨气，皇上赏 赐我十几车食物，如果我赏赐下去，倒是赢得众人爱兵如子的称赞，可我要他们这个称赞干吗？所谓民心这种东西 ，天下只能皇帝有，特别是我们这种手中握有重兵的人更是大忌讳。我如果拿了皇帝的赏赐去做人情，日后害的是 自己。李广敢和兵丁共享皇上赏赐，也许是出于本性仁厚，可也因为他根本没打过几个胜仗，年纪老大还没有封侯 ，职位是我们当中最低的，皇上根本不会忌惮他。你不妨想想，皇上如果知道军中的兵丁对我交口称赞，再加上现 在本来就对舅父有所忌惮，我还能有机会再领兵出征吗？”他轻叹口气，“所以呀！那十几车食物就是吃不完烂掉 ，也只能我自己吃。”
　　我转身拿玉石枕，“一路行来，你要求古怪，一会命军士给你建蹴鞠场，一会又要大家陪着你去打猎玩乐，奢 靡浪费四字用在你身上一点都不算过分，我心中还有些纳闷呢！不过想着几场生死大战，只要你开心，就是想摘星 星也无所谓，不料内里却这么多东西。现在想来，就我那点自以为是的心思，在长安城冒冲冒撞，一半竟然都是运 气。”

His actions are justified by Tong Hua, they don't come across as mistakes (like presented in historical accounts) but rather necessary to remain in the emperor's favour. Too bad he "died" so young
Therefore, he is still perfect

[Mangoberrie]

HQB also hid Jin Yu after finding her so Meng Jiu couldn't locate her. I see that in two ways, yes he was trying to protect her from possible more heartbreak, but it was also for his own love and interest in her. Had Meng Jiu found her, perhaps the rest of the story would have been very different.

While I feel emotionally that he did what was right at the time (I may be slightly bias) but logically speaking, it was not fair on Meng Jiu and Jin Yu had the right to know.

The tune is nice. A good mv too. Is it adapted from a novel or anything?

[koolangel297]

HQB also hid Jin Yu after finding her so Meng Jiu couldn't locate her. I see that in two ways, yes he was trying to protect her from possible more heartbreak, but it was also for his own love and interest in her. Had Meng Jiu found her, perhaps the rest of the story would have been very different.

While I feel emotionally that he did what was right at the time (I may be slightly bias) but logically speaking, it was not fair on Meng Jiu and Jin Yu had the right to know.

I remember that part! Jin Yu was so mean to HQB.
I'm too biased to see that as a fault because HQB was also trying to protect her from getting hurt again. Selfish, but not totally.
Of course, he should have given her the right to make that decision but Meng Jiu's wishy-washy coldness towards Jin Yu was too painful for her and HQB to witness.
In HQB's perspective, he witnessed Jin Yu drunk and heartbroken, witnessed how Meng Jiu rejected Jin Yu, witnessed Jin Yu trashing her room and tearing up the dress, and witnessed her crying while eating noodles. That's all I remember before HQB hid Jin Yu, and I justified his actions along the same line as someone who was trying to stop your ex-bf (who is a total jerk!) from coming back and hurting you again. And plus, Jin Yu said to not tell anyone about her whereabouts when HQB had to return to Chang'an

Therefore, he is still perfect
Man, I'm so biased LOL

But of course, Meng Jiu redeemed himself in the last few chapters. I felt sooooooo guilty.

[koolangel297]

On a separate note, had Jin Yu and Meng Jiu really gotten together, would they last forever? I always thought Jin Yu saw Meng Jiu as a father figure because she was captivated by him under the candle light (just like her dad).
I was quite surprised when HQB asked Jin Yu whether she had any feelings for him, and he listed:
1. Jin Yu blushed when she turned around to look at HQB (or was it including his men?) when they parted ways during their first encounter
2. Jin Yu saved the best seats for HQB to watch the stage performance
3. Jin Yu grabbed onto and shook HQB's arm when he was unhappy
4. Jin Yu constantly find ways to cheer HQB whenever he is unhappy
And, Jin Yu herself said she is too afraid to see (and even eat) Chinese scholars (pagoda trees).
Also:
1. Jin Yu ran up to HQB because her heart wrenched to see his icy-cold back on a warm sunny day (during the abduction chapter)
2. She smiled when HQB called her wife (assuming that someone who isn't in love with that person would not smile upon hearing that)
3. Jin Yu's face reddens many more times around HQB than Meng Jiu
4. The things that slip out of Jin Yu when talking to HQB: like when he compared her to grass (or something) and she said how hard it is for him to be with her; and also when they went star-gazing and he called her stupid and she said you're stupid too because we like each other. All of which occurred in the first part of the novel before the rejection.
Maybe, Jin Yu had a crush on HQB after their first encounter and not Meng Jiu, but because Meng Jiu was who she first came across again and was there during her early vulnerable days at Chang'an, her feelings for HBQ were suppressed or mistakenly channeled onto Meng Jiu - too far fetched? I'm doubting myself now!

[H.Ge-C.Liu]

1. Jin Yu was turning around to look at HQB.

I believe Jin Yu's earlier feelings for HQB was like a best friend, someone she could confide in when she was down-not as a romantic partner. These feelings only appeared for HQB after the incident with Meng Jiu (I seriously felt sorry for HQB then). As for Meng Jiu, Jin Yu was probably reminiscing her past life with her father, which induced her into relating Meng Jiu with her father. I'd admit Meng Jiu does remind me of JY's Han foster father though.

Most of those scenes happened after Meng Jiu rejected her, making her heartbroken. All the time, she knew HQB had feelings for her, but she never reciprocated HQB's feelings for her, because she still held the hope that Meng Jiu would reciprocate her feelings.

I lean towards HQB and Jin Yu rather than Meng Jiu and Jin Yu, so many of my comments are biased. Although Tong Hua did make us pity Meng Jiu in the end...

[Ren Ying Ying]

On a separate note, had Jin Yu and Meng Jiu really gotten together, would they last forever? I always thought Jin Yu saw Meng Jiu as a father figure because she was captivated by him under the candle light (just like her dad).

I think they would have lasted fine (if we disregard all the physical gifts that M9 cannot give JY ...). M9 may have reminded her a lot of her father, but I think she still truely loved him for who he was, not as a shadow of her father.

Also, unlike RuoXi (and even YunGe), Jin Yu isn't very wishy washy with her actions. If she had committed to Meng Jiu, it would take Meng Jiu committing some atrocious crime to her in order for her to leave him or change her mind about him. Even if she did have "hints of love" towards HQB at that time, I think those feelings would eventually be unconsciously buried. Afterall, even when she hooked up with HQB, it was pretty clear she wasn't entirely over Meng Jiu--yet, she still ended up fully committed to HQB without much regrets.

I believe Jin Yu's earlier feelings for HQB was like a best friend, someone she could confide in when she was down-not as a romantic partner. These feelings only appeared for HQB after the incident with Meng Jiu (I seriously felt sorry for HQB then). As for Meng Jiu, Jin Yu was probably reminiscing her past life with her father, which induced her into relating Meng Jiu with her father. I'd admit Meng Jiu does remind me of JY's Han foster father though.

Yep, I think in the begining, JY saw HQB more as a best friend, maybe a slight crush at most. She does appear to have some sort of an Oedipus/Electra complex going on though.

[koolangel297]

Personal opinion, I can't imagine a relationship lasting in the long-run when you have to be someone you are not.
In Jin Yu's case with Meng Jiu it wasn't that extreme, but having to stuff yourself with egg yolks, pretending to have a sore throat, bad shoulder, fake bitter-phobia, etc... doesn't tick of my personal criteria of genuine love. Change should occur naturally when you are in love, not intentionally. And genuine love is like Jin Yu and HQB, just do as you please and your partner will just have to learn to adapt to and unconsciously change for you and vice-versa.
But its a novel, so everything is interpreted based on personal perspective and its me that is incapable of feeling the chemistry between Jin Yu and Meng Jiu. Also Jin Yu was still young at that point, so of course she would come up with weird methods to attract the guy.
Man, DMY is considered much simpler than BBJX and I'm complicating it!
But I must admit, I did have a slight crush on Meng Jiu when he 'tenderly caressed' her newly-pierced ears. Too bad he ruined it with all his 'tests' on Jin Yu.

I have 6 words for Meng Jiu: 为别人做嫁衣
After reading the whole novel, the reader realizes that the blue dress Meng Jiu gave Jin Yu was a wedding dress but he never got to see her wear it while HQB did.
So not only did Meng Jiu sacrifice his health, happiness, and even life, he practically made the wedding dress for Jin Yu & HQB.
From the beginning, Meng Jiu was destined to give....

[Ren Ying Ying]

I think she was just faking her illness to get his attention, but I never go the feeling that she was ever putting up a "front" or "acting unlike herself" in front of Meng 9. It's not like she was pretending to be a weak little girl because she thinks he likes weak sickly little girls or anything. She was still very much herself in front of it. And while Meng 9 was hiding many facts about his background from her, he wasn't pretending to be something that he wasn't.

But that being said, I also do like her interactions with HQB better. They are just too cute with the bickering, esp when she uses his sleeves to blow her nose in (though that seems to be a common occurance in TH novels)...

[H.Ge-C.Liu]

Talking about Meng Jiu, I guess the part that made me start pitying him was after MJ cured HQB (after he [HQB] fell from his horse and Jin Yu went to the Shi Manor to beg him [MJ]). Quite bittersweet actually, when Jin Yu went to beg him.

[koolangel297]

I don't want a tv adaptation anymore. I can't think of an actor good enough to play HQB. Even Meng Jiu is too pretty and handsome.
It may surprise me like BBJX or disappoint like Twilight *shivers*

[H.Ge-C.Liu]

I'm still looking forward to the TV adaption by TR. I hope TR doesn't trip over on any of the romantic scenes. The romantic scenes in their dramas weren't that...appealing (with exceptions of course). Although the wuxia scenes Li Guo Li and the martial arts director make are the best. Pity there's not much wuxia in DMY.

LOL. I haven't actually touched any of the movies in the Twilight series (flipped through some pages in all four books, but didn't really catch my interest). My cousin watched Twilight a few years ago, and absolutely hated it. Her reaction doesn't really motivate me to watch it.

[Mangoberrie]

I, too, like the bickering scenes between HQB and JY.

I especially love the scene where Hong Gu tells her that a woman should at times learn to shut one's eye because if a woman is constantly watching a man, in the end that man will definitely not stay under her watch but will start a home elsewhere (in other words cheat) to get away from her gaze."
Then she's like, "What if a man is constantly watching a woman?"
And Hong Gu was stunned for a while before saying, "That woman should be smiling behind closed doors as it means he won't have time to look at other women."
Then she was all disgruntled and was like, "So unfair, so unfair."
Then at night，she told HQB the story the other way around and was like, "A man should at times learn to shut one's eye because if a man is constantly watching a woman, in the end that woman will definitely not stay under his watch but will start a home elsewhere to get away from his gaze."
Then her attempt of getting him to reflect on his behaviour totally falters as he just calmly says, "Noone will want to lose their life, and I will not give you that chance."

I thought this was one of the cutest scenes in the book.


I also like the scene with them on horseback after he "kidnapped" her and she was trying to get out of the blanket. He was so funny with his, "Conscious or unconscious, it's your choice."
Then she tried another tactic and said, "I'm uncomfortable, I want to take my hands out." But HQB's like, "I find it really comfortable, your hands are much more obedient trapped within the blankets, if you become comfortable, then I'll be the one uncomfortable."

They are seriously so cute together...

---

Edit: I'm looking forward to the TV adaption. I think TR will do fine. I just really hope they get really fitting actors/actresses. I still think Raymond Lam would make an awesome Meng Jiu. HQB is indeed hard...
Only issue I'm having is, if Tang Yan is cast as Jin Yu, they're going to find it difficult to find a Li Yan, as she's meant to be like a goddess.

[H.Ge-C.Liu]

I, too, like the bickering scenes between HQB and JY.

I especially love the scene where Hong Gu tells her that a woman should at times learn to shut one's eye because if a woman is constantly watching a man, in the end that man will definitely not stay under her watch but will start a home elsewhere (in other words cheat) to get away from her gaze."
Then she's like, "What if a man is constantly watching a woman?"
And Hong Gu was stunned for a while before saying, "That woman should be smiling behind closed doors as it means he won't have time to look at other women."
Then she was all disgruntled and was like, "So unfair, so unfair."
Then at night，she told HQB the story the other way around and was like, "A man should at times learn to shut one's eye because if a man is constantly watching a woman, in the end that woman will definitely not stay under his watch but will start a home elsewhere to get away from his gaze."
Then her attempt of getting him to reflect on his behaviour totally falters as he just calmly says, "Noone will want to lose their life, and I will not give you that chance."

I thought this was one of the cutest scenes in the book.


I also like the scene with them on horseback after he "kidnapped" her and she was trying to get out of the blanket. He was so funny with his, "Conscious or unconscious, it's your choice."
Then she tried another tactic and said, "I'm uncomfortable, I want to take my hands out." But HQB's like, "I find it really comfortable, your hands are much more obedient trapped within the blankets, if you become comfortable, then I'll be the one uncomfortable."

They are seriously so cute together...

---

Edit: I'm looking forward to the TV adaption. I think TR will do fine. I just really hope they get really fitting actors/actresses. I still think Raymond Lam would make an awesome Meng Jiu. HQB is indeed hard...
Only issue I'm having is, if Tang Yan is cast as Jin Yu, they're going to find it difficult to find a Li Yan, as she's meant to be like a goddess.

I'm currently re reading the book now. That part was indeed funny. I can't imagine how the story would go if HQB actually fell for it (although then his whole character and personality would change-HQB would probably be more like 10th from BBJX rather than the perfect HQB in Tong Hua's book).
*face palm* Totally forgot about Li Yan. Wei Zi Fu is also supposed to have a goddess-like beauty as well, since years before Li Yan, WZF also caught Liu Che's eye from a dance, because of her outstanding beauty. Liu Yi Fei as Xiao Long Nu just crossed my mind then. She could suit either of the two (the problem would be how her acting has improved over the years).
I'm fine with whoever plays Meng Jiu (Raymond Lam or Qiao Zhen Yu perhaps?). I'm more worried about the actor/actress for HQB/Jin Yu. Surely TR will have one of their own artists as a lead? Oh well. We'll know all the details in January.

[koolangel297]

No, LYF can't play Li Yan. Li Yan is a scheming beauty and LYF is a) too innocent b) can't act.
If Raymond Lam played Meng Jiu, then my dislike for the character will sky-rocket to a whole new level. Please no Raymond+Tang Yan, Ad Mania is more than enough for me. But Raymond was rather charming in MWNS.
Yep, the casting for Jin Yu and HQB is more important because if the leads aren't lovable, then....
Don't bother with the Twilight movies, I have a great understanding of the saga and Edward Cullen because my sister was fan-girling about him to me. Edward Cullen is her perfect guy. Maybe I should go and make her listen about HQB as payback!
Any good Chinese novel recommendations? My Chinese is improving at a phenomenal speed!

[Mangoberrie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfnyOZA5oLg
^ All the appearances of him in his white robes and wheelchair keep pulling me into buying him as a perfect Meng Jiu. Plus he can act and his teary scenes are usually really moving. It would also bring in the HK market. Bit like Kevin Cheng in BBJX.
I haven't watched Qiao Zhen Yu act before so I am unsure of his acting. I do agree though that HQB and Jin Yu casting needs to be perfect. LYF is indeed too innocent looking, although we need to remember that Li Yan in the eyes of other people was not a scheming person.

I'm seriously hoping they tell us before January the casting. Hopefully they'll tell us Nov *Wishful thinking*

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koolangel297 - Have you read Yun Zhong Ge?

[H.Ge-C.Liu]

Book recommendations
Personally, I haven't finished reading Song in the Clouds (YZG) yet, but another good read would be 《三生三世，十里桃花》 (Three Lives Three Worlds, Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms) by 唐七公子 (Tang Qi Gong Zi). If you're interested after reading the plot, I can give you the online reading site. Both Chinesechik and I loved it.
Tang Ren is planning to adapt it, and start filming sometime soon-at least I hope it's sometime soon, since they bought the rights in 2008, the same year as BBJX. A movie wouldn't take as long to prepare and plan (筹备) as a drama, right?

If TLTW isn't appealing, then my next choice would be 《东宫》 by 匪我思存, author of many other books like 《佳期如梦》，《千山暮雪》etc. which have all been adapted into dramas. Eastern Palace will also be adapted into a drama, starting late this year.

If you search the book titles up in baike.baidu, related information and the synopsis should be on there.

[koolangel297]

Great minds do indeed think alike!

@Mangoberrie, I didn't finish Song in the Clouds, I read up to the part where Ling Ge Ge's health deteriorates I can't continue! She took forever to find him and when she found him, she had a hard time accepting him yet he was still him but why must he die

@H.Ge-C.Liu, I read that too! The only novel that ever made me teary (not even the tragic ending in BBJX did). He is probably just as perfect as HQB or maybe even better. Such a bittersweet story especially when I read why he 'neglected' her and how he fell in love when she nursed the 'black snake'. Was it really him in the end?

Edit: I read Eastern Palace too and loved how the story ended. I like FWSC novels too (except Jia Qi Ru Meng) because aggressive sadistic guys are HOT!
Hope they don't change the ending in the adaptation of Eastern Palace like how they ruined Endless Love.

Just watched the Raymond clip, I remember watching that drama but its Raymond's built that I find too large considering Meng Jiu's health.

[Ren Ying Ying]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfnyOZA5oLg
^ All the appearances of him in his white robes and wheelchair keep pulling me into buying him as a perfect Meng Jiu. Plus he can act and his teary scenes are usually really moving. It would also bring in the HK market. Bit like Kevin Cheng in BBJX.
I haven't watched Qiao Zhen Yu act before so I am unsure of his acting. I do agree though that HQB and Jin Yu casting needs to be perfect. LYF is indeed too innocent looking, although we need to remember that Li Yan in the eyes of other people was not a scheming person.

Qiao Zhenyu is pretty decent actor in my opinion. Though, I think just based on appearance, he definitely has "delicate" look and lovely deep melancholic eyes

The actress for Jin Yu needs to be able to carry a spunk, and the actor of HQB needs to have pretty good comedic timing. I think a large part of why I prefer HQB over Meng9 is his (dry) humor.