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Thread: North Korean leader Kim Jong Il dead, state TV reports

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    Default North Korean leader Kim Jong Il dead, state TV reports

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/18/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1
    http://news.google.ca/news/more?pz=1...rB1RrM&topic=h
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-il

    Wow, another Marxist leader is gone. I wonder how many members here who embrace Marxism would mourn over his death. Anyway, it's very likely that Marxism is continue to spread all over North Korea under his 27 years old son Kim Jong-un http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-un

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    Could they be descandants of Jumong?

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    Senior Member charbydis's Avatar
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    Sorry to say but do not feel sad for his death. Hope North Korea will change under new leadership but not likely. His son would probabaly have been brought up coached to share the same ideals as him.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    One man died, but the evil system that his family put into place decades ago is still there. When Kim Jong-Il's father died almost eighteen years ago, nothing changed in North Korea (at least not for the better). I have no expectations that it'll be any different this time.

    Sadly, this dictatorship was built to last...at least for quite some time longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    One man died, but the evil system that his family put into place decades ago is still there. When Kim Jong-Il's father died almost eighteen years ago, nothing changed in North Korea (at least not for the better). I have no expectations that it'll be any different this time.

    Sadly, this dictatorship was built to last...at least for quite some time longer.
    For some reasons, as horrific as Marxist/communist leaders are, they tend to have more support from their countrymen than democratic elected leaders get from their. People from all over North Korea morns over the death of their beloved leader. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7BI05B20111220

    Yeah, it's hard to get rid of Marxist regime as it gets overwhelmingly support from their countrymen.

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    There are many of us who believe that the mourning is not genuine and staged, actually. Maybe you can't see the guns off camera... =) It is equally possible that the regime has brainwashed its citizens so that they do not know anything better than what they had, but given the resistance we see from China's people that's either not true, or Korea is much more effective at internal propaganda than China is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    There are many of us who believe that the mourning is not genuine and staged, actually. Maybe you can't see the guns off camera... =) It is equally possible that the regime has brainwashed its citizens so that they do not know anything better than what they had, but given the resistance we see from China's people that's either not true, or Korea is much more effective at internal propaganda than China is.
    I agree with the latter and disagree with the former. I think the reason Marxism is much more effective in North Korea than China is because it's lasted much longer. Marxism in China had ended since Mao passed away whereas Marxism in North Korea continues to spread to this day. Marxism's suck.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    For some reasons, as horrific as Marxist/communist leaders are, they tend to have more support from their countrymen than democratic elected leaders get from their. People from all over North Korea morns over the death of their beloved leader. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7BI05B20111220

    Yeah, it's hard to get rid of Marxist regime as it gets overwhelmingly support from their countrymen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    There are many of us who believe that the mourning is not genuine and staged, actually. Maybe you can't see the guns off camera... =) It is equally possible that the regime has brainwashed its citizens so that they do not know anything better than what they had, but given the resistance we see from China's people that's either not true, or Korea is much more effective at internal propaganda than China is.
    That's *precisely* what it is. The Kims have perpetrated one of the most complete and insuperable brainwashing campaigns in history. Their people literally know nothing else. The greatest threat to the Kim regime is not an enemy missile, but the North Korean people gaining open access to knowledge and information from the outside world. *That's* what keeps the Kims sleepless at night, not the prospect of being attacked by the U.S.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    That's *precisely* what it is. The Kims have perpetrated one of the most complete and insuperable brainwashing campaigns in history. Their people literally know nothing else. The greatest threat to the Kim regime is not an enemy missile, but the North Korean people gaining open access to knowledge and information from the outside world. *That's* what keeps the Kims sleepless at night, not the prospect of being attacked by the U.S.
    Agree but it won't happen as the Marxist regime would never allow the general population to gain any knowledge and information from the outside world other than their propaganda. People who are trying to spread knowledge and information will be labeled as traitors/enemies and will be punished very harshly. I guess it's Marxism in its purest form.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Agree but it won't happen as the Marxist regime would never allow the general population to gain any knowledge and information from the outside world other than their propaganda. People who are trying to spread knowledge and information will be labeled as traitors/enemies and will be punished very harshly. I guess it's Marxism in its purest form.
    Of all the Communist governments that have existed in the world, none has been as successful or complete as North Korea's in maintaining absolute control over information and knowledge within its jurisdiction: the Soviet Union, its satellite Eastern European nations during the Cold War, the PRC (China), Cuba, etc....they *all* eventually gave in and allowed some extent of (kind of, sort of, not really) free expression (to varying results). North Korea, however, has been absolutely airtight in this aspect (which goes a long way to explaining its longevity).

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    Quote Originally Posted by charbydis View Post
    Sorry to say but do not feel sad for his death. Hope North Korea will change under new leadership but not likely. His son would probabaly have been brought up coached to share the same ideals as him.
    You have nothing to sorry for. Most people, including myself, do not have any sadness at all over his death. I would say only people who embrace Marxism feel sad over his death. And I think you are right, leadership in North Korea will not change. The country will never to stop embrace Marxism.

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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    I believe the North Koreans are already aware that their Chinese and Southern brothers/sisters are in reality much better off than they are. Why else would they keep running to China to get supplies?

    I also believe that there are North Koreans who are genuinely upset over Kim Jong-il's death, and those who are only putting on an act (it's hard not to when your life's on stake). Another possibility is that they have no idea what's next for them after Kim's death. At least when Kim was around, they knew what to expect. But the new leader is... new. They didn't even know him. It's hard not to cry when your future looks that bleak and uncertain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang View Post
    I believe the North Koreans are already aware that their Chinese and Southern brothers/sisters are in reality much better off than they are. Why else would they keep running to China to get supplies?
    That is just a small minority of the population. Isn't it illegal for them to cross the border to a foreign country?

    I also believe that there are North Koreans who are genuinely upset over Kim Jong-il's death,
    I believe that is the vast majority of the population. Pictures speak louder than words. Check this out: http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12...o-dear-leader/
    The world is stupid for keep giving aid to North Korea. The world should leave North Korea alone. North Koreans are extremely happy with the Kim regime. I guess Marxism has succeeded in North Korea and will continue for many more generations.

    and those who are only putting on an act (it's hard not to when your life's on stake). Another possibility is that they have no idea what's next for them after Kim's death. At least when Kim was around, they knew what to expect. But the new leader is... new. They didn't even know him. It's hard not to cry when your future looks that bleak and uncertain.
    Nah, I don't think so.

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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    That is just a small minority of the population. Isn't it illegal for them to cross the border to a foreign country?

    I believe that is the vast majority of the population. Pictures speak louder than words. Check this out: http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12...o-dear-leader/
    Crossing the borders is illegal. But desperation makes people do desperate things.

    Picture is louder than words, you say. Well, there's not only 1 type of image in this world. By your reasoning, we really have a child Gulliver in our world: http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/art..._2-eiffel2.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang View Post
    Crossing the borders is illegal. But desperation makes people do desperate things.
    The price is can be very high and many have paid their lives for doing so. If they got caught, the guards along the border will shoot them.

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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    The price is can be very high and many have paid their lives for doing so. If they got caught, the guards along the border will shoot them.
    True but not necessarily. Sometimes they will just be caught and sent to jail or something.

    Not that death will deter them when staying in the country STARVED and lack of medical equipment/care will kill them anyway. So why not just take a shot to try to stay alive?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang View Post
    True but not necessarily. Sometimes they will just be caught and sent to jail or something.
    Do you know how horrific jail is in North Korea?

    Not that death will deter them when staying in the country STARVED and lack of medical equipment/care will kill them anyway.
    Welcome to a Marxist society where the life of average Joe and Jane are pretty much worthless and expendable.

    So why not just take a shot to try to stay alive?
    Yeah, people would take a chance.
    Last edited by Trien Chieu; 12-30-11 at 03:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Of all the Communist governments that have existed in the world, none has been as successful or complete as North Korea's in maintaining absolute control over information and knowledge within its jurisdiction: the Soviet Union, its satellite Eastern European nations during the Cold War, the PRC (China), Cuba, etc....they *all* eventually gave in and allowed some extent of (kind of, sort of, not really) free expression (to varying results). North Korea, however, has been absolutely airtight in this aspect (which goes a long way to explaining its longevity).
    North Korea is so small and homogeneous that it's gotta be pretty easy to control and insulate.
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
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