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Does Dali have its own, "separate" wulin from that of the Central Plains?
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Thread: Does Dali have its own, "separate" wulin from that of the Central Plains?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Does Dali have its own, "separate" wulin from that of the Central Plains?

    One concept that I gather from DGSD: Dali seems to have its own, self-contained "mini-wulin" whose affairs are more or less separate from the larger, more mainstream wulin located in the Central Plains under the aegis of the Northern Sung Dynasty. In Dali, there is the Deun Royal Family, the Heavenly Dragon Temple, Ten-Thousand Calamities Valley (e.g. Chung Man Sau and his associates), the Boundless Sword Sect, and the Divine Farmer's Union. Occasionally, the affairs of the Central Plains wulin will "spill" into Dali, but for the most part, Dali's wulin kept to its own affairs and did not get involved in the affairs of the Central Plains wulin.

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    Now that you mention it, it seems wulin action as a whole is pretty limited to the few stories we actually get to read. LOCH/ROCH is pretty wulin sparse, with only Quanzhen and Beggar's Sect really appearing, and a handful of characters that interact with the main characters.

    HSDS/DGSD introduces wulin wide events, but prior to the events of the novel, nothing really happens either. Miejue and Zhang Sanfeng are mentioned to not have left their mountains for decades, and the Ming Sect pretty much deteriorated by itself with no joint effort from opposing sects.

    SPW seems to be the only story where significant past events occurred that the reader does not get to witness, with a huge battle between the Sun Moon Sect Elders against the other sects.

    One battle every century or so seems pretty damn boring for wulin, which is generally filled with hot tempered people dying to use the martial arts they've been training for decades.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Now that you mention it, it seems wulin action as a whole is pretty limited to the few stories we actually get to read. LOCH/ROCH is pretty wulin sparse, with only Quanzhen and Beggar's Sect really appearing, and a handful of characters that interact with the main characters.
    It was a pretty small cross-section of wulin that L/ROCH focused on, but that cross-section was pretty front- and -center in wulin. During those six decades, the Beggar's Union and the Cheun Jen Sect *were* the most important mainstream wulin sects, and the Greats were the most powerful known martial artists. Although the focus was narrow, it was definitely on the center of wulin (not the fringes).

    HSDS/DGSD introduces wulin wide events, but prior to the events of the novel, nothing really happens either. Miejue and Zhang Sanfeng are mentioned to not have left their mountains for decades, and the Ming Sect pretty much deteriorated by itself with no joint effort from opposing sects.
    In HSDS, I get the feeling that outside the main focus characters and their associated sects, there *were* quite a few things going on among myriad minor sects and individual, independent warriors...not to the extent of SPW or a Gu Long story, but definitely more than L/ROCH.

    SPW seems to be the only story where significant past events occurred that the reader does not get to witness, with a huge battle between the Sun Moon Sect Elders against the other sects.
    I've always felt that SPW seemed to be set more in a Gu Long-type world than in a Jin Yong-type world. SPW doesn't fit well with the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY or even its close relative, DGSD, but it does seem to fit a Gu Long-type setup very well.

    One battle every century or so seems pretty damn boring for wulin, which is generally filled with hot tempered people dying to use the martial arts they've been training for decades.
    Most of wulin probably routinely faced small-scale conflicts among individuals and small sects, occasionally punctuated by the big, wulin-wide crisis (which is the focus of the published wuxia stories).

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    One concept that I gather from DGSD: Dali seems to have its own, self-contained "mini-wulin" whose affairs are more or less separate from the larger, more mainstream wulin located in the Central Plains under the aegis of the Northern Sung Dynasty. In Dali, there is the Deun Royal Family, the Heavenly Dragon Temple, Ten-Thousand Calamities Valley (e.g. Chung Man Sau and his associates), the Boundless Sword Sect, and the Divine Farmer's Union. Occasionally, the affairs of the Central Plains wulin will "spill" into Dali, but for the most part, Dali's wulin kept to its own affairs and did not get involved in the affairs of the Central Plains wulin.
    Dali (Yunan) is actually a pretty small place relative to the rest of China, especially the size of the population of Dali is significantly smaller than the Central Plains. Add to the fact of the hazardous journey across the mountains, Dali is physically isolated from the rest of China.

    Hence, it makes sense that the local Dali wulin is smaller and separate from the central plains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
    Troll Control

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    Senior Member Dirt's Avatar
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    Dali wasn't much smaller than Southern Song.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
    Dali wasn't much smaller than Southern Song.


    Judging from this map, the geographical area of the Kingdom of Dali was less than half that of the Southern Sung Kingdom. If you add the territories that comprised the Northern Sung (e.g. the DGSD era), then overall, Sung dwarfs Dali.

    In terms of population density, the Central Plains was likely far more densely populated than Dali.
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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Largest cities in the world in the year 1000 (estimated population): 1) Cordoba, Spain (450,000); 2) Kaifeng, China (400,000); 3) Constantinople (300,000); 4) Angkor, Cambodia (200,000); 5) Kyoto, Japan (175,000); 6) Cairo (135,000); 7) Baghdad (125,000); 8) Neyshabur, Persia (125,000); 9) Al Hasa, Arabia (110,000); 10) Anhilvada, India; 11) Rayy, near modern-day Tehran (100,000); 12) Isfahan, Persia (100,000); 13) Seville, Spain (90,000); 14) Dali, China (90,000); 15) Thanjavur, India (90,000).
    At some point, the population of the Sung dynasty was 100 million people.

    http://factsanddetails.com/china.php...d=1023&catid=2

    So, there was a massive population ratio between the Sung vs Dali.

    Han Solo
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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
    Troll Control

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