Was the DGSD Heroes Conference at Shaolin the finest moment in Jin Yong's canon?

[Ken Cheng]

Would you say that the Heroes Conference at Shaolin in DGSD was Jin Yong's finest moment as a story writer? This chapter/episode had it all: awesome fights among powerful fighters, resolutions of huge plot points, a wide variety of characters. It's hard to think of another scene in Jin Yong's canon that compares to it.

[PJ]

It might be, for 2 reasons. #1 is that its awesome fights and plot revelations offer immense excitement to the reader. #2 is the thought-provoking philosophies courtesy of Sweeper Monk, which are more than meet the eye. The combination of the two is what makes it great.

[ChanceEncounter]

Taken in a vacuum, it may be the best in all of Wuxia. Unfortunately, we can't take scenes in a vacuum.

[tape]

Shaolin meets create good moments I suppose. The 3 fights at Shaolin in SPW is also awesome, with great dialogue to boot, courtesy of Ren Woxing. I'm always amused and smile at this passage:


“Your martial art is sufficient and your scheming is very deep, very suitable to my taste. You want to annex the five mountains sword schools and to stand as an equal with Shaolin and Wudang. You have really high fantasy. But your movements are very suspicious and you planned all sort of conspiracies and deceits. This is not the behaviour of a hero. That’s why I have absolutely no admiration for you,” Ren Woxing explained.

Zuo Lengchan replied, “From the three and a half people that I don’t admire in this world, you’re only one half.”**

Ren Woxing continued, “All you can do is copy other people’s ideas and have no thought of your own; so that’s why no one admires you. Even though your study of Songshan School’s martial art is profound, everything was passed down by the people before you. If you have to depend on just your own ability, I’m afraid even after many years, we won’t be able to see any new moves in the martial art.”

The way RWX gets cut off and smoothly insults him with what he just said is hilariously intelligent.

**RWX described that he admires and doesn't admire three and a half people in this world just prior to this.

[Ian Liew]

He admired Fang Zheng, Dongfang Bubai, Feng Qingyang and half of Chongxu (who went up to ¾ after the scene) - but I can't remember who he didn't admire! Who else was there?

[ChanceEncounter]

ZLC was at the top of his not admire list. He didn't get to finish the others before he was cut off and the subject changed.

[Ian Liew]

ZLC was at the top of his not admire list. He didn't get to finish the others before he was cut off and the subject changed.

Ooh, how exciting. I wonder who the other 2½ were. It's not like there was anyone left in wulin who would deserve his attention and notice. Even Yue Buqun, I think, would be beneath his notice, but could very well be one of his 3½. Something like "foregoing the wonderful swordplay of Huashan for some mediocre internal energy skill, but I only scorn you ½ because you married a great wife and together raised a fine young man in Linghu Chong!!".

[tape]

I think we've speculated on this topic before, and one of the prime candidates would be Beggar's Clan leader Xie Feng. He had multiple illegitimate children (no idea if RWX would condemn him for that), his martial arts was likely not on par with Fangzheng and Chongxu (since Zuo fought instead of him) despite being one of the top sects with a rich history, and generally did not get anything noteworthy mentioned about him.

I wonder if DFBB could also be on his not admired list, since he was willing to castrate himself for power as well as betray RWX who had treated him so well.

[PJ]

Ooh, how exciting. I wonder who the other 2½ were.

There is another mystery in SPW where FQY said he only met 3 (or so) great martial artists in his life, but didn't specify who. That has also been a topic of frequent speculation.

JY seemed to incorporate this "3 mysterious people" thing in SPW more than his other novels.

[pannonian]

The 3 fights at Shaolin is the best wuxia scene of Jinyong's that I've read, but my favourite scene is more historical fiction than wuxia. Namely Guo Jing pleading to Genghis Khan to spare the Samarkandians, knowing that he was giving up all he wanted and all he believed in, for a bunch of people who wouldn't appreciate what he did, just because he wouldn't shy away from doing what was right. Unlike Linghu Chong when he rejected Ren Woxing's offer at Huashan, he didn't have anyone to emotionally support him in his decision, but wandered off alone exploring his thoughts, eventually concluding that even his filial piety in seeking to avenge his father was wrong, as it had resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocents.