Swordsman 2012 《笑傲江湖》 - Wallace Huo, Joe Chen, Yuan Shan Shan

[Chuen Tong]

I kind off like this version much better. DFBB is still a female and loves LHC wholeheartedly. This could be the version that we all are hoping for

http://newsmilingproudwanderer.blogspot.com

[bachtuyet]

hey, anybody where I can find this series in engsub???

[shangster]

That is the thing though. The highlights of Ren Ying's Ying's character are made stronger when they come from the self-made leader of the strongest sect in Wulin. If you are going to have an evil girl with authority, that evil girl would be a more impactful character if she possessed more authority, more ambition, more capability.

Not true at all. Why does that female character has to have ambition and world authority to have a strong impact? What makes a female characters in wuxia genre have such an influence on the storyline and to the reader is how educated, independent, sophisticated and resourcefulness they are when facing with different challenges in wulin and their relationship with the opposite sex. In fact, it is their struggling in a world dominated by men and then rise to the occasion is what makes them have such strong impact on the audience.

Moreover, Ren Ying Ying was born into her allegiance to the evil sect. DFBB chose to be leader of the evil sect and pursue world domination. Which one would be the more interesting?

Ren Ying Ying. As far as the way the plot was develop in the novel, she is the perfect compliment to LHC. She has decent martial art and is very independent, in which she probably inherit her strong personality from her father. She holds some authority, but she doesn't have any ambition on being at the top of the jiang hu world, and she doesn't see the world as black and white, either. What makes her such an important character is her complicated relationship with LHC. She fell in love with LHC, but knowing that he would never join her sect, she never once asked him to do such a thing, which she has to balance her relationship with her father and LHC.

In so much as the novel is changed; I don't know. I wasn't going to watch this version at first because if all the Xiao Ao Jiang Hu series follow roughly the same script, why bother watching the next series?

They may follow the same plot and scripts, but each adaptations presented their series differently i.e. different actors, settings, theme, and atmosphere. For example, the '96 version and the '01 mainland version were both considered as fan favorites. The directions and takes on the novel were different from each other, the '96 version has a balance between fun and serious tone of series, while the '01 has a darker and more serious atmosphere.

There were a lot of problems with the recent remake, but most importantly is the plot. Having DFBB to fall in love with LHC and would do everything in her power for him, even death, is beyond cliche, and quite frankly make no sense. Can you imagine if a queen of a country who has no equal in power and strength, and has ambition to rule the world, all of a sudden fall in love with a peasant male and would die for him? For this kind of plot to work, it would required very complicated writing, unfortunately, Yu Zheng just isn't one to do it.

Well I differ a bit in that I think a movie/tv series should be judged on it's own merits rather than how closely it aligns with the source material. A movie/tv series could be very faithful to the source material but can be horrible because of poor execution, or just that certain scenes don't translate well on screen as opposed to the page.

Two perfect examples would be the scenes where LHC outwitted Tian Bo Guang in the tavern to save Yi Lin and when he fight Tian Bo Guang for the second time in Huashan's Cliff of Repentance. For those who read the novel, the point of those two scenes was to show who LHC really is -- an intelligent, quick witted but caring and noble pugilist, who loves wine and has a carefree nature and a humorous personality. I absolutely love the '96 interpretation of those two scenes. The scripts and the acting of Jackie Liu and the actor who played Tian Bo Guang were perfect. The TVB '86, Taiwanese and Singapore '00, and even the mainland '01 all have the result correct, in that LHC outwitted TBG, but the effect of the scene and the acting were just awkward, nothing like how the novel describes the scenes.

[Steven Chen]

My other half and I have started a fanfic of this series. Tightening all the loose ends and giving the key characters a better ending. We felt that this is a good series and it was worth translating and adapting it. Please feel free to give your thoughts. Thank you so much.

http://newsmilingproudwanderer.blogspot.com/

[sonny4T]

@Tankerdude

You misunderstand my post.
I said Joe Chen Qiao En WAS perfect playing the DFBB of XAJH2012, because in this series DFBB has nothing to see with the character from the novel. BTW for me, Joe is the best DFBB ever.

[VetaMega]

Not true at all. Why does that female character has to have ambition and world authority to have a strong impact? What makes a female characters in wuxia genre have such an influence on the storyline and to the reader is how educated, independent, sophisticated and resourcefulness they are when facing with different challenges in wulin and their relationship with the opposite sex. In fact, it is their struggling in a world dominated by men and then rise to the occasion is what makes them have such strong impact on the audience.


Ren Ying Ying. As far as the way the plot was develop in the novel, she is the perfect compliment to LHC. She has decent martial art and is very independent, in which she probably inherit her strong personality from her father. She holds some authority, but she doesn't have any ambition on being at the top of the jiang hu world, and she doesn't see the world as black and white, either. What makes her such an important character is her complicated relationship with LHC. She fell in love with LHC, but knowing that he would never join her sect, she never once asked him to do such a thing, which she has to balance her relationship with her father and LHC.


They may follow the same plot and scripts, but each adaptations presented their series differently i.e. different actors, settings, theme, and atmosphere. For example, the '96 version and the '01 mainland version were both considered as fan favorites. The directions and takes on the novel were different from each other, the '96 version has a balance between fun and serious tone of series, while the '01 has a darker and more serious atmosphere.

There were a lot of problems with the recent remake, but most importantly is the plot. Having DFBB to fall in love with LHC and would do everything in her power for him, even death, is beyond cliche, and quite frankly make no sense. Can you imagine if a queen of a country who has no equal in power and strength, and has ambition to rule the world, all of a sudden fall in love with a peasant male and would die for him? For this kind of plot to work, it would required very complicated writing, unfortunately, Yu Zheng just isn't one to do it.



Two perfect examples would be the scenes where LHC outwitted Tian Bo Guang in the tavern to save Yi Lin and when he fight Tian Bo Guang for the second time in Huashan's Cliff of Repentance. For those who read the novel, the point of those two scenes was to show who LHC really is -- an intelligent, quick witted but caring and noble pugilist, who loves wine and has a carefree nature and a humorous personality. I absolutely love the '96 interpretation of those two scenes. The scripts and the acting of Jackie Liu and the actor who played Tian Bo Guang were perfect. The TVB '86, Taiwanese and Singapore '00, and even the mainland '01 all have the result correct, in that LHC outwitted TBG, but the effect of the scene and the acting were just awkward, nothing like how the novel describes the scenes.

We might have to disagree on this, but I will elaborate on my position.

I read about women using their resourcefulness to solve problems for Wuxia heroes all the time, eg: Huang Rong, Cheng Linsu, Wang Yuyan, Zhao Min, A Zhu, ect. And though you think it is a cliche, I have never seen a Queen with no equal in power or strength fall for a peasant. For that matter, I have never in Wuxia seen a Queen who has no equal in power or strength on the verge of having everything. The former - the resourceful woman helping the main xia - seems more in line with the general cultural cliche found in a lot cultures in that the women are never the hero, only the supporting cast for the hero - that B level skilled women and A level men are a pair. The latter demonstrates that superficial things people normally think of as important in relationships like power, money, rank fall to wayside in the face of character in meaningful romance.

Generally, the more a character affects wulin, the more impactful a character can be. Zhang Wuji leads the Ming Sect, Yuan Chenzhi leads a wulin rebel force, Duan Yu is the Emperor of Dali, Xu Zhu is the leader of 109 sects and the prince-consort of Xi Xia, Xiao Feng is a king and the leader of the begger sect, Yang Guo and Guo Jing are made into members of new five greats, Linghu Chong is the leader of Heng Shan, Wei Xiaobao is well...everthing - these facts lend to making the characters more impactful. The reason why the original DFBB was such a profound character was in part because he deposed Renwoxing and became the most powerful martial artist in the world while castrating himself. If he was just some random character who castrated himself to learn the most powerful martial arts, he would not be so impactful with so little "screen-time". And as it might be more apparent, Zhang Wuji would have been less of a character if he was not leader of the Ming Sect.

A character who wants to rule wulin being together a character who wants to just live merrily - the contrast there would have been very vivid. Both LHC and RYY have decent martial arts, are independent, possess little ambition, and don't see things as black and white, so the complimentary contrast on those points is not very strong. The fact that RYY is balancing loyalties half the time to the two men in her life doesn't help the force of her character. She's a daddy's girl.

Yes, every Xiao Ao Jiang Hu is different because each is a different production. Still, watching the same thing over and over again can get dull.

[wuxiarocks]

Whether anybody like or hate this new take on DFBB, the deal is, this shouldn't have been call Xiao Ao Jiang Hu, at all. Why not just make this its own thing? Yu Zheng could have save us all the trouble.

To call this Xiao Ao Jiang Hu is silly. As this has a completely different spirit. If anything I think this series would have benefit more if it was its own thing. Not that I like this series...just saying.

[Tankerdude]

That is the thing though. The highlights of Ren Ying's Ying's character are made stronger when they come from the self-made leader of the strongest sect in Wulin. If you are going to have an evil girl with authority, that evil girl would be a more impactful character if she possessed more authority, more ambition, more capability.

Moreover, Ren Ying Ying was born into her allegiance to the evil sect. DFBB chose to be leader of the evil sect and pursue world domination. Which one would be the more interesting?

In so much as the novel is changed; I don't know. I wasn't going to watch this version at first because if all the Xiao Ao Jiang Hu series follow roughly the same script, why bother watching the next series? I was provoked into watching after finding out that DFBB's role was changed dramatically, and I had hoped that would change the dynamics of the show a lot.

But the thing is, again, there is nothing really new with the changes they made to this series. As I said, it merely copies the outline of the 1992 movie with Jet Li. Sure, they stretched out the plot to fill an entire series vs only a 2 hour movie, but essentially they just copy that premise poorly. Nothing new or innovative.

It's not that I am totally against any changes made to the plot and characters of the source novel, as I mentioned, I understand novel and tv are different medium and you can't always translate what's on the page to screen. And I do like the 1992 movie and 2001 CCTV series alot despite the changes. But you have to be true to the spirit of the novel. Xiao Ao Jianghu was supposed to be about a cautionary tale about power struggles, the dubious distinction between "good" and "evil" martial schools and the length people will go to grab ultimate power. It is not supposed to be a silly teen romance with some martial arts through in as an after-thought.

I mean, where do you draw the line? At this rate, why don't they make LHC the transsexual and RYY the male?

[Tankerdude]

@Tankerdude

You misunderstand my post.
I said Joe Chen Qiao En WAS perfect playing the DFBB of XAJH2012, because in this series DFBB has nothing to see with the character from the novel. BTW for me, Joe is the best DFBB ever.

I guess you have pretty poor understanding of DFBB as a character, but oh well, you are entitled to your view, even if it is utterly wrong.

[wuxiarocks]

I guess you have pretty poor understanding of DFBB as a character, but oh well, you are entitled to your view, even if it is utterly wrong.

Just as Yu Zheng fail to the understand the character as well. Matter of fact he failed to understand LHC too.

Yu Zheng said DFBB was an interesting character, so he wanted to explore more by giving him more screen time. Basically he fail at that, because he turned one of the most intriguing character in a Wuxia novel, or any story period into an evil powerful queen with a heart.

DFBB was written to appeared briefly in the novel for good reason. He was the symbol for absolute power, and a walking road map for any character in the story to become should they follow that path. And we all know who got there.

Now comes the theme of power struggle where men of gentlemen status stand up to evil in the name of good, only to become hypocrites by wanting the very same power of the evil they claim to despise. They became exactly like their worse enemy. They became themeselves. But the true heart of the story lies with LHC, his character is the solution for how to counter this world of power addiction.

The key is to enjoy life with what one have, not try to conquer it.

That is the spirit of XAJH. Did Yu Zheng understand this? Clearly not. Sure he follow the power struggle plot somewhat close, but his poor attempt at romance broke the spirit of the story.

He even fail to understand Yang Lianting's character as well. DFBB desire Yang Lianting as a husband figure. In this version, Yang Lianting is pretty much a lap dog, a substitute for LHC, for whatever reason wears lipstick and make-up.

Yu Zheng fail even at the simplest of character.

What he understood was, how to make fangirls jump in joy to see their idols shared passionate love on screen, and how to make them cry to see their idols broke up because of their position in life...

THIS, is not Wuxia. This is idol-drama. This is melodrama.

They sacrifice DFBB character by making him the main heroine with a troubling heart, and LHC a bored happy go lucky turned drama queen. And yes, a hypocrite as well. The very thing LHC was suppose to be opposite of. That was the whole point of his character. It's call Carefree for a reason.

[shangster]

I read about women using their resourcefulness to solve problems for Wuxia heroes all the time, eg: Huang Rong, Cheng Linsu, Wang Yuyan, Zhao Min, A Zhu, ect. And though you think it is a cliche, I have never seen a Queen with no equal in power or strength fall for a peasant. For that matter ...

You're right. The word cliche is definitely the wrong word to use. But as with my original point, is that for such a relationship as shown in the recent remake of Swordsman 2013, it would required very complicated writing by the staff of Yu Zheng. I just didn't see that in this series at all.

Yes, every Xiao Ao Jiang Hu is different because each is a different production. Still, watching the same thing over and over again can get dull.

What you say can be true, however, it is not true with all the remakes of Smiling, Proud, Wanderer. The reason why is because not a single adaptation has ever come anywhere close to capture the entire spirit of this novel (yes, including the TVB '96).

As far as this recent remake is concern, it didn't even feel like a wuxia series at all.

The reason why the original DFBB was such a profound character was in part because he deposed Renwoxing and became the most powerful martial artist in the world while castrating himself. If he was just some random character who castrated himself to learn the most powerful martial arts, he would not be so impactful with so little "screen-time"

One of the reasons why the original DFBB was so popular among fans is that there is this mysterious aura about him, even though his background was explained (albeit, only in a few of dialogues), and the fact that he is the strongest character in the novel even though he appeared in only one chapter. And what's great about the novel was that it didn't need to prolong the existence of super strong characters like DFBB or Feng Qi Yang (LHC's grandmaster) to keep the audience interested. (Yet, somehow those two characters are two of the most popular characters among fans.)

The problem that I have with Yu Zheng's DFBB is that she is just a "copy-and-paste" character from Ren Ying Ying. She didn't make any impact on me as an audience in anyway. Even some of her most importance scenes were originally belonged to Ren Ying Yin. In a way, Yu Zheng uses ideas from another production (Jet Li's movie and etc) took some scenes from Ren Ying Ying and give it to his DFBB.

[shangster]

Just as Yu Zheng fail to the understand the character as well. Matter of fact he failed to understand LHC too.

Yu Zheng said DFBB was an interesting character, so he wanted to explore more by giving him more screen time. Basically he fail at that, because he turned one of the most intriguing character in a Wuxia novel, or any story period into an evil powerful queen with a heart.

DFBB was written to appeared briefly in the novel for good reason. He was the symbol for absolute power, and a walking road map for any character in the story to become should they follow that path. And we all know who got there.

Now comes the theme of power struggle where men of gentlemen status stand up to evil in the name of good, only to become hypocrites by wanting the very same power of the evil they claim to despise. They became exactly like their worse enemy. They became themeselves. But the true heart of the story lies with LHC, his character is the solution for how to counter this world of power addiction.

The key is to enjoy life with what one have, not try to conquer it.

That is the spirit of XAJH. Did Yu Zheng understand this? Clearly not. Sure he follow the power struggle plot somewhat close, but his poor attempt at romance broke the spirit of the story.

He even fail to understand Yang Lianting's character as well. DFBB desire Yang Lianting as a husband figure. In this version, Yang Lianting is pretty much a lap dog, a substitute for LHC, for whatever reason wears lipstick and make-up.

Yu Zheng fail even at the simplest of character.

What he understood was, how to make fangirls jump in joy to see their idols shared passionate love on screen, and how to make them cry to see their idols broke up because of their position in life...

THIS, is not Wuxia. This is idol-drama. This is melodrama.

They sacrifice DFBB character by making him the main heroine with a troubling heart, and LHC a bored happy go lucky turned drama queen. And yes, a hypocrite as well. The very thing LHC was suppose to be opposite of. That was the whole point of his character. It's call Carefree for a reason.

StateofDivinity, I have to say I'm very impressed with how you give an outline of this novel. This is pretty much a perfect description of why this recent remake just didn't work. YZ tried to implement his idea (the female DFBB) into an already developed story. Unfortunately, his new character felt extremely out of place when compared to the characters and plot that already existed. And YZ made it wrose by changing a couple of plots and characterization to fit in his female DFBB that it completely detracted from the original essence of this story i.e. LHC turned into a emotional, hypocrite is an absolute no-no.

[VetaMega]

I am curious. The mainland accent Joe Chen sported - was that the dubbed voice of another person?

[sonny4T]

I am curious. The mainland accent Joe Chen sported - was that the dubbed voice of another person?

Joe has the mainland accent? Funny thing! For me everyone has the Chinese accent LOL! I love Joe's voice and accent tho. But I can't make the difference between Mandarin and Cantonese and I don't understand a single word in Chinese except the famous WO AI NI (just for Joe).

[sonny4T]

I guess you have pretty poor understanding of DFBB as a character, but oh well, you are entitled to your view, even if it is utterly wrong.

So are you with yours.

[Tankerdude]

So are you with yours.

But what part of my view is wrong? I have given my reasons for why I think the changes to DFBB was wrong. You haven't. Let me hear your view.

[Steven Chen]

My other half and I have started a fanfic of this series. Tightening all the loose ends and giving the key characters a better ending. We felt that this is a good series and it was worth translating and adapting it. Please feel free to give your thoughts. Thank you so much.

http://newsmilingproudwanderer.blogspot.com/

http://newsmilingproudwanderer.blogspot.com is now completed and ready for your reading pleasure

[thisisablackout]

I have never read the novel or watched any other versions of the story, so I am not biased as to how loyal it remained to the novel. I can only say that I enjoyed every episode of it.

I agree with the people who say that Joe's DFBB outshined YSS's RYY. I was rooting for DFBB the entire way up to her death. I mean, since it has already strayed from the original story so much, they might as well let LHC end up with DFBB, right?

Another thing I would like to say is that I really liked CX's performance as LPZ. I feel like he hit every note perfectly and LPZ was probably my favorite character in the entire drama. Unfortunately, his performance in Female Prime Minister did not live up to the high expectations I had after seeing him as LPZ.

[Chi Chiang]

I also have never read the novel and enjoyed this series thoroughly. Perhaps it wasn't as deep as the novel and perhaps I just needed a diversion this weekend, but I still thought the story moved quickly and some of the characters were fascinating.

In particular, I thought that DFBB was a much more memorable character than RYY. I wonder if the directors purposefully chose the colors that the three love interests of LHC wear- his 'sister' wore yellow (for sibling-hood), DFBB wore red (for passion), and RYY wore white (for pure and eternal love). I did not root for DFBB to end with LHC (then the series would have been about DFBB and her redemption through her love story with LHC) because LHC had a much healthy-er relationship with RYY.

I have never read the novel or watched any other versions of the story, so I am not biased as to how loyal it remained to the novel. I can only say that I enjoyed every episode of it.

I agree with the people who say that Joe's DFBB outshined YSS's RYY. I was rooting for DFBB the entire way up to her death. I mean, since it has already strayed from the original story so much, they might as well let LHC end up with DFBB, right?

Another thing I would like to say is that I really liked CX's performance as LPZ. I feel like he hit every note perfectly and LPZ was probably my favorite character in the entire drama. Unfortunately, his performance in Female Prime Minister did not live up to the high expectations I had after seeing him as LPZ.

[Tianlang]

I have to say i did enjoy the first half of this adaptation until RYY showed up and spoil the whole story. LHC became a douche right after he knew her too. He was far worst than LPZ. LHC and RYY were the ones who should have died in this one.