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Thread: Swordsman 2012 《笑傲江湖》 - Wallace Huo, Joe Chen, Yuan Shan Shan

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    I'm only halfway through the show, but it really feels like a botched production. I expect adaptations to deviate from their source material, but if one were to make large deviations then there are only two effective approaches. The first is to preserve as much of the original characterization and themes as possible while making changes in the events and plot. The other is abandon the idea of following the source to any degree and to run wild with original ideas.

    Swordsman 2013 tries to do a bit of both, and the two end up fighting each other. The most notable example of this is that Ren Yingying is effectively a redundant character. Not only does she not actually do anything of note, but her role is usurped by Dongfang Bubai after a scant number of scenes. The end result is a character who makes no impact on the other characters, on the story, and on the audience. This is made even worse because it feels like the director sometimes doesn't grasp the characters and they end up getting played incorrectly in crucial scenes.

    Finally, I just got to the scene with the wolves and it's driving me nuts. It's a poorly edited action/CGI piece whose purpose seems to be to show Linghu Chong rescuing Dongfang Bubai. Is she supposed to be all-powerful? If she is, then why is she put into positions of weakness for such inconsequential reasons and with so little effect? If she isn't, then why is she talked up so much? In the original novel, Linghu Chong only rescues Ren Yingying twice - she's the one who keeps rescuing him instead. This is done for a reason, but it looks like the people in charge of Swordsman 2013 don't seem to grasp why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedRossi View Post
    I'm only halfway through the show, but it really feels like a botched production.

    it looks like the people in charge of Swordsman 2013 don't seem to grasp why.
    That's because the one in charge of the production/script apparently has never read the novel.

    Elements are heavily taken from past adaptations and mash together to poor effect.

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    Senior Member Dongfang Xue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by State of Divinity View Post
    That's because the one in charge of the production/script apparently has never read the novel.

    Elements are heavily taken from past adaptations and mash together to poor effect.
    Yes I agree. The LHC in the series became a total hypocrite while the Ying Ying became an insignificant evil scheming gal. The biggest flaw is when LHC stabbed DFBB after listening to Ying Ying's lies. LHC in the novel was supposedly a loyal and carefree character while in the series he was a hypocrite who felt that good and evil cannot coexist. Funniest thing is he kept thinking about DFBB but when he sees her he becomes mean to her. It did not contain the spirit of Xiao Ao Jiang Hu. I would call it Bei Shang Jiang Hu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dongfang Xue View Post
    Yes I agree. The LHC in the series became a total hypocrite while the Ying Ying became an insignificant evil scheming gal. The biggest flaw is when LHC stabbed DFBB after listening to Ying Ying's lies. LHC in the novel was supposedly a loyal and carefree character while in the series he was a hypocrite who felt that good and evil cannot coexist. Funniest thing is he kept thinking about DFBB but when he sees her he becomes mean to her. It did not contain the spirit of Xiao Ao Jiang Hu. I would call it Bei Shang Jiang Hu
    What makes LHC even more of a hypocrite in this one is that he befriend the rapist TBG, yet despise killer like DFBB. A straight up hypocrite, completely opposite to the carefree nature/theme of XAJH.

    People love XAJH because the two main leads are some of the most understandable people in Jiang hu, that is rare. Everybody else would be black and white, but LHC and RYY are not that. In this adaptation however, they're just like everybody else, hypocrites.

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    Senior Member Dongfang Xue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by State of Divinity View Post
    What makes LHC even more of a hypocrite in this one is that he befriend the rapist TBG, yet despise killer like DFBB. A straight up hypocrite, completely opposite to the carefree nature/theme of XAJH.

    People love XAJH because the two main leads are some of the most understandable people in Jiang hu, that is rare. Everybody else would be black and white, but LHC and RYY are not that. In this adaptation however, they're just like everybody else, hypocrites.
    Yup. The only lovable characters here are probably LZF and QY lol. They didn't really care about the jiang hu matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by State of Divinity View Post
    That's because the one in charge of the production/script apparently has never read the novel.

    Elements are heavily taken from past adaptations and mash together to poor effect.
    Is that conjecture or has it actually been confirmed? To be honest, I can believe it either way. This production has bits and pieces of ideas taken from other adaptations and even other stories (most notably the Bride with White Hair). I don't mind that normally, but it's done poorly in the case of Swordsman 2013 because the different bits don't work together.

    Even worse, the show tries to preserve parts of the story that don't make any sense any more because of the changes. Take the fate of the Sunflower Manual: Ren Woxing claimed that he wouldn't want to castrate himself and end up like Dongfang Bubai so he destroyed it. However, in the show, Dongfang Bubai was a woman to begin with so she's not an example of anything! Heck, there was even another woman in the very room who could have learned from the Sunflower Manual without any consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by State of Divinity View Post
    People love XAJH because the two main leads are some of the most understandable people in Jiang hu, that is rare. Everybody else would be black and white, but LHC and RYY are not that. In this adaptation however, they're just like everybody else, hypocrites.
    The problem here is that the show tried to paint Dongfang Bubai as a villain, but she was more sympathetic than the leads were. So instead of Linghu Chong acting heroically in the fight, he was the one who was villainous! I never expected him to turn into anti-Linghu Chong and espouse views directly opposed to the character in the book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedRossi View Post
    Is that conjecture or has it actually been confirmed? To be honest, I can believe it either way. This production has bits and pieces of ideas taken from other adaptations and even other stories (most notably the Bride with White Hair). I don't mind that normally, but it's done poorly in the case of Swordsman 2013 because the different bits don't work together.

    Even worse, the show tries to preserve parts of the story that don't make any sense any more because of the changes. Take the fate of the Sunflower Manual: Ren Woxing claimed that he wouldn't want to castrate himself and end up like Dongfang Bubai so he destroyed it. However, in the show, Dongfang Bubai was a woman to begin with so she's not an example of anything! Heck, there was even another woman in the very room who could have learned from the Sunflower Manual without any consequences.


    The problem here is that the show tried to paint Dongfang Bubai as a villain, but she was more sympathetic than the leads were. So instead of Linghu Chong acting heroically in the fight, he was the one who was villainous! I never expected him to turn into anti-Linghu Chong and espouse views directly opposed to the character in the book.
    YZ did not have the guts to change his adaptation completely. If I recalled reading somewhere he and Wallace had some arguments over the story line. Wallace who is already a famous actor probably did not wish to see a heroic LHC become another hypocrite but in the end it was YZ who made a final call. This ridiculous version however help DFBB gained more fame and fans. DFBB has now become an icon in XAJH. Joe Chen has now gained more fans from this adaptation. Jin Yong was probably more interested in the money given to him than his work. Hoping Tangren would produce their own version soon. Their version of LOCH 2008 was good though I personally wished that Yang Kang had lived happily with MNC. But if he did Yang Guo wouldn't have met XLN lol.

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    I've just finished Swordsman 2013, and it's been a pretty disappointing experience. Although I love the novel, I felt that the better portions of the show were (largely) the places where it diverged from the original. Swordsman 2013 was let down by poor direction and inconsistent writing whenever it tried to replicate scenes from the novel.

    The strongest parts of the show came early on with Dongfang Bubai doing all sorts of crazy things. Once she fell into the lovey-dovey role, it really wasn't worth watching any more.


    And then we come to the stealing. I'm all for stealing from other stories as long as it makes your work better, but not when it leads to all sorts of unfixable inconsistencies.

    Two more rules that should be followed:

    1. Never steal from the Bride with White Hair. It's not the kind of story that can be just dropped into another work, it leads to unconvincing plots, and it's almost never satisfying.

    2. Don't steal from the worst plot in State of Divinity 1996 - "Ren Yingying is poisoned". It should be a no-brainer, but only good stories are worth stealing!



    Most of the main cast came off poorly, and the supporting cast was adequate at best. The best performance was Yang Rong as Yue Lingshan. In the end, I don't think that this show is worth watching. Swordsman II 1992, State of Divinity 1996, and Laughing in the Wind 2001 already cover all the bases and do so better than Swordsman 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Heretic View Post
    YZ did not have the guts to change his adaptation completely. If I recalled reading somewhere he and Wallace had some arguments over the story line. Wallace who is already a famous actor probably did not wish to see a heroic LHC become another hypocrite but in the end it was YZ who made a final call.
    This adaptation was botched in so many ways that it's a bit hard to account for all of the missteps. I'm still a bit stunned with how much material was copied - right down to the fight on the elevators. I guess it'd take someone with more talent to be able to go hog wild on the changes.

    Of Yu Zheng's other shows, I've only watched (or fast-forwarded through ) Gong, and it's almost enough for me to foreswear his shows. Unfortunately, I really like Yun Zhong Ge, so I'm curious how badly he's going to screw that show up. And I'm morbidly curious about the new Shen Diao adaptation.

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    Senior Member Dongfang Xue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedRossi View Post
    I've just finished Swordsman 2013, and it's been a pretty disappointing experience. Although I love the novel, I felt that the better portions of the show were (largely) the places where it diverged from the original. Swordsman 2013 was let down by poor direction and inconsistent writing whenever it tried to replicate scenes from the novel.

    The strongest parts of the show came early on with Dongfang Bubai doing all sorts of crazy things. Once she fell into the lovey-dovey role, it really wasn't worth watching any more.


    And then we come to the stealing. I'm all for stealing from other stories as long as it makes your work better, but not when it leads to all sorts of unfixable inconsistencies.

    Two more rules that should be followed:

    1. Never steal from the Bride with White Hair. It's not the kind of story that can be just dropped into another work, it leads to unconvincing plots, and it's almost never satisfying.

    2. Don't steal from the worst plot in State of Divinity 1996 - "Ren Yingying is poisoned". It should be a no-brainer, but only good stories are worth stealing!



    Most of the main cast came off poorly, and the supporting cast was adequate at best. The best performance was Yang Rong as Yue Lingshan. In the end, I don't think that this show is worth watching. Swordsman II 1992, State of Divinity 1996, and Laughing in the Wind 2001 already cover all the bases and do so better than Swordsman 2013.
    I love Wallace's LHC in the first half and Joe Chen's DFBB all the way! I guess watching it with an open mind and ignoring the novel would make you feel better. I agree that there were parts that were copied and those were unpleasant parts. In this version ChongDong would have been a much better pairing. Say whatever you want about YZ but he did help Joe Chen gain much popularity.

    I for one look out for the cast before watching a series. Yes this is an idol drama but the love between Chong and Dong was interesting. Their chemistry was great in the first half. Wouldn't mind if RYY died in this version since she was insignificant.

    Would have been nice to see YLS ended up with LPZ in this version. St least they would have achieved Smiling Under The Pugilistic World since HuaEn could not do it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Heretic View Post
    This ridiculous version however help DFBB gained more fame and fans. DFBB has now become an icon in XAJH. Joe Chen has now gained more fans from this adaptation. Jin Yong was probably more interested in the money given to him than his work.
    This series isn't that ridiculous if we consider it without any comparison to the original novel. The biggest mistake and weakness in this version as you said is that YZ had no enough guts to change completely the storyline. He started with something really exciting, created the new DFBB character in such a way that almost every viewer fall in love with her and built a great romance. But as he feared the critics and the traditional XAJH fans, YZ didn't want to go further in his inspiration. In the second half of the series, he made a U-turn and ridiculously transformed his lead character LHC. By doing that, he upset DFBB-LHC fans and made the storyline ridiculous.

    The only thing I keep from the show is as you said Joe Chen's performances and the beautiful image of DFBB.

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    Junior Member Whirlwind's Avatar
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    I have just finished the series with lots of fast forwarding of course. One question, when did LHC learn how to play the flute? Thought he learned how to play the zither?

    The most captivating character in the entire series is of course DFBB. Excellent performance by Joe Chen. She broke away from those sticky girl character to a cold but selfless love angel

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    i just finished watching the series. i thought it was not bad. i didn't mind with the changes; i liked it. since it's a tv show, the only thing mattered to me was the entertainment factor and does it make sense. i was entertained thanks to Joe Chen's performance!

    It was sad on the outcome of Dongfang Bubai. I rather see DFBB and LHC end up togther. I don't understand why they didn't end up together when majority of the series were focused on those two??? Plus, they had better connection. I think RYY is an ok person who loved and cared for LHC, but she practically STOLE him away from DFBB! LHC & DFBB both already revealed that they have affections toward each other at the cave after fighting off the snow wolves. And at that time, DFBB started to be compassionate. Who knows what would had happened if they were still together. Retired from the jianghu world and help LHC find a care for his injuries??? But, RYY's jealousy plotted and destroyed their relationship, so that she could have LHC. i feel that's very despicable to mess with other people's relationship.

    That being said, I didn't like the ending. It would had been better ending if LHC & DFBB ended up together, or LHC with no one because he sort of like a dumbass. The ending is so vague. I don't know if DFBB lives or not?? They left a lot open possibilities for a sequel. I read a few posts on here and from other sites that there were talks/rumors of a sequel? Does anyone know if it's true? Personally, I really like to see a continue sequel because I want to see DFBB have a proper ending! Too bad there wasn't an alternative ending on this new version of Swordsman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dongfang bubai 2013 View Post
    i just finished watching the series. i thought it was not bad.
    You thought it wasn't "bad," so you named yourself after Chen Qiao'en's portrayal of Dongfang Bubai?

    I wonder if you'll regret that decision, because it seems rather rash ...

    You may not be appreciating Dongfang Bubai all that much a few months down the line.

    But hey, I get it. Yu Zheng's Dongfang Bubai is intriguing to say the least. Just look at the pics Shakespeare posted above.

    He/she may very well be the ultimate mindfuk across the entire spectrum of Chinese costume dramas.

    I mean, hell ... I watched the entire fifteen minute Chen Qiao'en/Dongfang Bubai video promoting Swordsman Online ... and then blogged about it.
    Last edited by PrinceKrillo; 06-08-14 at 07:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dongfang bubai 2013 View Post
    It was sad on the outcome of Dongfang Bubai. I rather see DFBB and LHC end up togther. I don't understand why they didn't end up together when majority of the series were focused on those two??? Plus, they had better connection. I think RYY is an ok person who loved and cared for LHC, but she practically STOLE him away from DFBB! LHC & DFBB both already revealed that they have affections toward each other at the cave after fighting off the snow wolves. And at that time, DFBB started to be compassionate. Who knows what would had happened if they were still together. Retired from the jianghu world and help LHC find a care for his injuries??? But, RYY's jealousy plotted and destroyed their relationship, so that she could have LHC. i feel that's very despicable to mess with other people's relationship.
    That's because none of that ever happened in the novel. This was all made up. This female DongFeng BuBai practically took all of RYY's important scenes with LHC, essentially making her a new RYY, per se. And the current RYY was a "new" character that had no place in the plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by dongfang bubai 2013 View Post
    That being said, I didn't like the ending. It would had been better ending if LHC & DFBB ended up together, or LHC with no one because he sort of like a dumbass. The ending is so vague. I don't know if DFBB lives or not?? They left a lot open possibilities for a sequel. I read a few posts on here and from other sites that there were talks/rumors of a sequel? Does anyone know if it's true? Personally, I really like to see a continue sequel because I want to see DFBB have a proper ending! Too bad there wasn't an alternative ending on this new version of Swordsman.
    Again, the ending was completely made up, which was why I hated this serial. I guess my definition of a good serial is different than that of yours. I don't mind producers changing the plot, but it has to be consistent throughout. There was nothing consistent with this serial. This Linghu Chong love triangle was a convoluted mess, not only because it didn't make sense but also not consistent with their characters. The real Linghu Chong was loyal and open-minded; he was not a hypocrite or a dumbass, as he was portrayed in this serial. And if Yu Zheng were to be consistent with that, his LHC would have never left the female DFBB to be with anyone else.

    As for a "sequel", ohh for all the love that is wuxia, please NO! We don't need to stomach another Yu Zheng's train wreck of a wuxia adaptation, or rather a made up sequel to a famous wuxia novel. LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlwind View Post
    I have just finished the series with lots of fast forwarding of course. One question, when did LHC learn how to play the flute? Thought he learned how to play the zither?

    The most captivating character in the entire series is of course DFBB. Excellent performance by Joe Chen. She broke away from those sticky girl character to a cold but selfless love angel
    He only learned how to play the zither, not the flute. This was a blatant mistake by the production team. No attention to detail I guess.

    As for Joe Chen, I think she would make a great RYY -- the real RYY in the novel and not this DFBB mixed with RYY-ish personality and story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shangster View Post

    As for Joe Chen, I think she would make a great RYY -- the real RYY in the novel and not this DFBB mixed with RYY-ish personality and story.
    Can't understand YZ's mind, why need inject RYY's personality to DFBB's character?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shangster View Post
    As for Joe Chen, I think she would make a great RYY -- the real RYY in the novel and not this DFBB mixed with RYY-ish personality and story.
    Joe Chen was fantastic as DFBB but I'm not sure she would be a great Yinyin of the novel. For me the real Yinyin is only XuQing in the previous TV show version. That said, XuQing would've never been as good as Joe Chen in the character of DFBB.

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    Completed this series in 1 day
    enjoy this drama.
    Good choice they made DFBB a natural instead of tranny

    first 20 episodes were good .... later half was draggy with fillers and war war war
    Most of the time I was just fast forwarding to the next DFBB scene.......

    OveralL I rate it 8/10


    For the ending, I interpret it as DFBB attaining resistance to cold from her experience in the ice cave under the monk temple.
    She used the frozen lake to slow down the poison heart exchanged from RYY.
    Last edited by krabs; 10-05-14 at 04:06 PM.

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