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Thread: Jinyong's treatment of Wang Chongyang

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    Default Jinyong's treatment of Wang Chongyang

    Usually, historical figures in Jinyong's works are characters which match their roles in history. Some exceptions are made for characters whose feats were displaced by the protagonists (e.g. Lv Wenhuan, Zhu Yuanzhang), but I want to focus on Wang Chongyang.


    In Taoism, Wang Chongyang is an important figure - he was the one that introduced the concepts of Buddhist style monkhood (chastity, meditation etc.) into the Taoist priesthood, eschewing traditional practices such as Chinese-style alchemy, exorcisms and talismans etc. In SDYXZ and SDXL, he plays a similar role to Dugu Qiubai or Zhang Sanfeng - a super pugilist that acts as a treasure chest for the protagonist.

    I, however, take issue to the way Jinyong has treated him. Despite being the No.1 of his time, his relationship to Lin Chaoying shows all the hallmarks of pettiness and spite. Why did he have to reject her advances in the first place? Opposing the Jin dynasty is all and good, but it does not require a vow of chastity - his letters and the Seven's words indicate a long-term relationship. Was he merely playing with her emotions?

    When Lin Chaoying died, he had snuck in -using a route that he conveniently never told her about - to pay his respects and shat his pants when he saw Yunv Xinjing. The thing was, he held enough of a grudge to sneak back in once he got his hands on Jiuyin and used it to come up with a way to counter Yunv. The guy is such a sore loser that he has to have one up on the lady after she died!

    Then there is the issue of Quanzhen: He did not pass down many of his most powerful techniques to his disciples. For instance, there is the issue of his ace card Xiantiangong: He was willing to teach it to Yideng but not any of the seven or Zhou Botong? Zhou mentioned that there were lots of goodies he never learnt because he lost his virginity - a few of the seven were virgins, why were they not taught any of these techniques? Again, Wang Chongyang is portrayed as a miser and a hoarder.

    The worst is Jiuyin: He won the first Huashan Lunjian and claimed Jiuyin - to save others from it, or so he said. He forbade Zhou and the Seven to learn the martial arts contained within for this purpose. But then he goes and lets some fellow read it cover to cover as the result of losing a drinking contest! If only Ouyang Feng knew - all he had to do to lay his hands on Jiuying was to learn Qiu Chuji's technique of forcing alcohol out through his feet! Not only that, he goes and uses Jiuyin to fulfill a petty grudge against a deceased former lover/rival!

    I think Jinyong does a disservice to Wang Chongwang by portraying him as he did in SDYXZ and SDXL. If we compare him to other historical figures who play similar roles (Zhang Sanfeng for instance), Wang Chongyang comes off as having serious character flaws, contrary to his practice of treating historical characters according to their roles in history. Not only that, but these flaws have been accentuated through the various revisions of his works (the third edition added the drinking contest bit, for one), as opposed to his trend of reducing the flaws of such characters and portraying them more positively!

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    Perhaps the real Wang Chongyang was a petty sore loser.
    Last edited by Trien Chieu; 02-26-13 at 12:54 AM.

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    I've read where Sun Bu'er had to mutilate her own face before Wang Chongyang would allow her to study with him. From what little I've been able to gather, the real Wang Chongyang was a bit off his rocker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
    I've read where Sun Bu'er had to mutilate her own face before Wang Chongyang would allow her to study with him. From what little I've been able to gather, the real Wang Chongyang was a bit off his rocker.
    what???????

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    what???????
    I had heard a similar story that Sun Bu Er was supposedly beautiful and she had requested to join the QZ sect to cultivate Daoism.
    However, WCY had rejected her in fear that she would "stir the men's hearts" and thus she mutilated her own face as a sign of devotion

    These are just stories, don't think it is historically accurate.


    However, based on what I've read about her, she was always described as very intelligent and beautiful.
    Some accounts mention that WCY had wanted her to join because of her early "affinity" for Daoism. Some mention she followed her husband Ma Yu and joined QZ later on
    Last edited by Snafu3721; 06-15-17 at 11:43 AM.

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    All the Greats were heavily flawed. I think that's what makes them more appealing as characters than say Dugu Qiubai whom we know nothing about except his own exhortations of his greatness; not unlike Wang Chongyang to Lin Chaoying who defeated Quanzhen kung fu but could not defeat Wang Chongyang. Of course, Wang missed the point of Lin's kunfu, but that's part of his flaw.
    Last edited by Dirt; 06-16-17 at 11:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
    I've read where Sun Bu'er had to mutilate her own face before Wang Chongyang would allow her to study with him. From what little I've been able to gather, the real Wang Chongyang was a bit off his rocker.
    According to the Chinese Wikipedia (no idea how accurate it is), Wang Chongyang was depressed and called himself 'Crazy Wang' (Wang Haifeng), then claimed to have met two immortals while in a drunken stupor. He then proceeded to abandon his wife and children (so much for virgin martial arts...), changed his name and became a Taoist priest, meeting more immortals along the way. He went to Zhongnanshan, dug a shallow (1 zhang - ~11 feet) hole that he called 'the tomb of the living dead' and spent the next couple of years there burning incense to a funeral plaque dedicated to himself with his old 'Crazy Wang' name.

    So yes, I think most people would probably be inclined to think that he was a bit of a nutcase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    According to the Chinese Wikipedia (no idea how accurate it is), Wang Chongyang was depressed and called himself 'Crazy Wang' (Wang Haifeng), then claimed to have met two immortals while in a drunken stupor. He then proceeded to abandon his wife and children (so much for virgin martial arts...), changed his name and became a Taoist priest, meeting more immortals along the way. He went to Zhongnanshan, dug a shallow (1 zhang - ~11 feet) hole that he called 'the tomb of the living dead' and spent the next couple of years there burning incense to a funeral plaque dedicated to himself with his old 'Crazy Wang' name.

    So yes, I think most people would probably be inclined to think that he was a bit of a nutcase.
    Didn't he stop sitting in that hole when a passing pedlar named Lin Chaoying persuaded him to come out and rejoin society? Pedlar Lin later claimed that hole for himself when he challenged Wang to melt the plaque with his breath alone, which Wang couldn't, but Lin did. Later a pharmacist surnamed Huang showed Crazy Wang how ingesting certain substances could make one's breath corrosive for a short period.

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