Why didn't Hung 7 Gung reclaim the Beggar's Union Chief position after LOCH?

[Ken Cheng]

When North Beggar Hung 7 Gung ceded his Beggar's Union Chief position to Wong Yung in the middle of LOCH, he did so because he believed that he would soon die or, at the very least, lose his great martial arts abilities forever after being critically wounded by West Poison Au Yeung Fung. As it turned out, of course, Hung 7 Gung didn't die during LOCH and even regained (and perhaps improved) his martial arts abilities. Wong Yung did a good job as Hung 7 Gung's successor as the Beggar's Union Chief for the remainder of LOCH, but at the end of LOCH, Wong Yung went with Gwok Jing to Peach Blossom Island, where they would stay for the next thirteen years until the beginning of ROCH.

This is where things get curious: during the time that Wong Yung retreated with Gwok Jing to Peach Blossom Island to start a family, the day-to-day administration of the Beggar's Union was left in the hands of Elder Lo Yau Gerk. Lo was trustworthy, reasonably capable, and respected by the rank and file of the Beggar's Union, but in terms of overall capability and certainly martial arts, he was decidedly no Wong Yung or Hung 7 Gung. Moreover, Elder Lo's rank at the time was that of 8-Bags Elder, which was a high rank, but not Union Chief. Given that Wong Yung was on extended personal leave on Peach Blossom Island, why didn't Hung 7 Gung reclaim his Union Chief position? Unlike Wong Yung, Hung 7 Gung remained in the Central Plains, he was healthy again, he already had experience from his previous tenure as Chief, and his popularity and respect among the Union members remained very high. Reasonably, if Wong Yung knew she wasn't going to be back in the Central Plains for a while, she should have ceded the Chief position back to Hung 7 Gung.

[wkeej]

From a layman's perspective, that could be the related reasons:
1. Getting old
2. Likes travelling
3. Man of word - since he has already appointed HR to take over the position, how to ask it back?
4. HR may not have thought that she is going to stay permanently in Xiangyang.

[Ken Cheng]

From a layman's perspective, that could be the related reasons:
1. Getting old

He was getting older, but as of ROCH, he was not too old to lead the Union. He was in good health and his mind was intact, so I think he was still fit for the job.

2. Likes travelling

This is true, but it was also true during LOCH when he was the incumbent Union Chief.

3. Man of word - since he has already appointed HR to take over the position, how to ask it back?

Actually, I thought that Wong Yung would probably ask her teacher to take his Union Chief position back once she decided she was going to stay on Peach Blossom Island and raise children with Gwok Jing. I'm surprised Wong Yung didn't bring it up during her and Gwok Jing's (hypothetical) wedding banquet on Peach Blossom Island (I assume there was such an event and that Hung 7 Gung was one of the guests).

4. HR may not have thought that she is going to stay permanently in Xiangyang.

At the point that she did, she ceded the position to Lo Yau Gerk...because Hung 7 Gung had already died. I am surprised that Wong Yung didn't ask Hung 7 Gung to reclaim the position upon her marriage, though.

[wkeej]

If I were to be HR, I will probably think along these lines, "Teacher is getting old. Let him enjoy his days with dad and his old pals instead of bothering the sect affairs. Moreover, it is not nice to give back something which is given to me".

[Ken Cheng]

If I were to be HR, I will probably think along these lines, "Teacher is getting old. Let him enjoy his days with dad and his old pals instead of bothering the sect affairs. Moreover, it is not nice to give back something which is given to me".

Which would be fine if she and Gwok Jing decided to return the mainland immediately after their marriage so that Wong Yung could actively take up her Union Chief position, but they didn't make it back to the mainland for a dozen years.

[Ken Cheng]

One additional consideration to bear in mind is that Hung 7 Gung ceded the Beggar's Union Chief position to Wong Yung because of the needs of the moment. In the moment he made that decision, he realistically feared that he would soon die or permanently lose all of his martial arts skills. Appointing Wong Yung his successor as the Union Chief was a necessary decision of the moment. By the time LOCH ended, however, it was evident that Hung 7 Gung wasn't dying any time soon and his martial arts abilities were back to full power. The conditions that had required him to cede the Union Chief position had been resolved, and he really should have reclaimed the position at that point, especially with the knowledge that Wong Yung would remain on Peach Blossom Island for an extended time due to marriage and motherhood.

[wkeej]

From a person's perspective, isn't it strange/unchivalrous to ask something back which you have given away?

Anyway, in LOCH, since HR has appointed Elder Lu to manage the sect, we can consider Lu to be the CEO while HR is the chairperson.

[Ken Cheng]

From a person's perspective, isn't it strange/unchivalrous to ask something back which you have given away?

Perhaps, but in light of her situation, Wong Yung might have decided that the most sensible thing to do was to offer Hung 7 Gung the Union Chief position back.

After all, if she's going to be on Peach Blossom Island far-removed from the day-to-day affairs of the Union, why not give the position back to Hung 7 Gung, who at the very least, remained in the Central Plains?

[pannonian]

Perhaps, but in light of her situation, Wong Yung might have decided that the most sensible thing to do was to offer Hung 7 Gung the Union Chief position back.

After all, if she's going to be on Peach Blossom Island far-removed from the day-to-day affairs of the Union, why not give the position back to Hung 7 Gung, who at the very least, remained in the Central Plains?

It would undermine Huang Rong and her chosen deputy Lu Youjiao. Also, Hong Qigong went to great lengths to reconcile the clean and dirty clothes factions. Huang Rong seems to have gone straight for the dirty clothes faction as the most loyal to her. Her partisanship doesn't seem to have stirred up trouble, so there was no point in returning to a past state of affairs.

[hyoyatika]

I think even though HR was a very intelligent person, she was respectful. I believe she would had consulted with H7G over the sect matters if possible. In other words, H7G probably acted something like a mentor to HR and had influence over the sect matters too. Therefore, there probably wasn't any real need to return the leadership back to H7G so as to speak.

[Liljanger]

If i recall, HR did try to hand the leadership back to HQG after they left the island and fled from OYF but he scolded her for being irresponsible.

[Dirt]

It's a theme. Nan Di continued his monkhood. Xi Du was insane so couldn't be White Camel leader. Huang Yaoshi gave up Peach Blossom Island. Bei Gai continued stay away from Begger Clan business. They went from Wulin Greats to... I can't remember the Chinese phrase but it means they were Experts outside of the Martial World.

[hyoyatika]

It's a theme. Nan Di continued his monkhood. Xi Du was insane so couldn't be White Camel leader. Huang Yaoshi gave up Peach Blossom Island. Bei Gai continued stay away from Begger Clan business. They went from Wulin Greats to... I can't remember the Chinese phrase but it means they were Experts outside of the Martial World.

keen observation!

did you meant shi wai gao ren?

[wkeej]

If i recall, HR did try to hand the leadership back to HQG after they left the island and fled from OYF but he scolded her for being irresponsible.

If this is so, then everything is fine. Can't remember this though - I will ask this question in the LOCH2017 thread.

[wkeej]

See response by blurry in LOCH2017 thread. "HR asked GJ if he wanted to be the chief but he declined. He suggested that HR pass the position to a capable beggar instead. HR then spoke to HQG about it. He rejected her idea and told her off. Think this conversation took place before they infiltrated the palace to eat."
http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...=1#post1139678

[Ken Cheng]

See response by blurry in LOCH2017 thread. "HR asked GJ if he wanted to be the chief but he declined. He suggested that HR pass the position to a capable beggar instead. HR then spoke to HQG about it. He rejected her idea and told her off. Think this conversation took place before they infiltrated the palace to eat."
http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...=1#post1139678

Just by way of comparison, in LOCH 82, Wong Yung did jokingly offer to return the Union Chief position to Hung 7 Gung after he recovered from his injuries, but Hung 7 Gung replied only that serving as the Union Chief was a great privilege that many others could only dream of. After that, they never brought the subject up again.

[Ian Liew]

I think the only weakness LYJ had compared to HR and H7G was that his martial arts were average (although not poor by any means). Given that what the Beggar's Clan needed was good organisation and management in the face of an invading Mongol army, rather than super martial arts (since the only known enemy of any caliber was the insane Ouyang Feng), LYJ would have done a job equally as well as H7G could have, probably even better as H7G was known to take extended periods of leave while LYJ, as far as we can tell, was pretty diligent in what he did.

[Ken Cheng]

I think the only weakness LYJ had compared to HR and H7G was that his martial arts were average (although not poor by any means). Given that what the Beggar's Clan needed was good organisation and management in the face of an invading Mongol army, rather than super martial arts (since the only known enemy of any caliber was the insane Ouyang Feng), LYJ would have done a job equally as well as H7G could have, probably even better as H7G was known to take extended periods of leave while LYJ, as far as we can tell, was pretty diligent in what he did.

Lo Yau Gerk might have been superior to both Hung 7 Gung and Wong Yung as an administrator, but his relative weakness as a martial artist became a liability when Fok Do challenged the Beggar's Union both at the Heroes' Conference at Luk Family Manor and again sixteen years later when he murdered Lo Yau Gerk. In wulin, the leader of a sect/clan/union is ideally someone with the best martial arts, if available.

[Ian Liew]

Lo Yau Gerk might have been superior to both Hung 7 Gung and Wong Yung as an administrator, but his relative weakness as a martial artist became a liability when Fok Do challenged the Beggar's Union both at the Heroes' Conference at Luk Family Manor and again sixteen years later when he murdered Lo Yau Gerk. In wulin, the leader of a sect/clan/union is ideally someone with the best martial arts, if available.

Prior to that point, though, there was no indication that there was any presence in wulin which would require brute force to resolve - Ouyang Feng was the only threat not toeing the line set by Guo Jing and his friends, and he was insane anyway. By the time the Golden Wheel Monk and Huo Du made their presence known Hong Qigong was no longer an option, and LYJ would remain, sadly, the best option. Everyone did recognise the need for H7G, and in fact they had nominated him to be the leader of wulin, no less, although in absentia. He just wasn't reachable by anyone, even if nobody knew he had already passed away.

[PJ]

IIRC it was said in the novel that H7G became "lazy" and didn't want the job any more.