Am I the only one who prefers the early-mid 90's TVB dramas to the 80's?

[S Beaver]

When we look at a work of art, we need to judge it on its own terms and not compare it to what later interpreters of the subject were able to do with it because they had better resources available to them. Just as things aren't automatically better because they're older, they're not automatically worse either (although I personally think many of our cultural products overall have declined in quality over time). People don't get nostalgic over crap, after all. If they loved it then and love it now, there must be something innately worthwhile about it.

I didn't say the 80s series were bad (even in comparison) but rather, nostalgia and first impressions do play a role for many people. Of course, as you say, nostalgia and first impressions isn't going to turn crap into gold, but if two productions are comparable, the nostalgia may be an X-factor.

For artworks, nostalgia may not be a factor, but being original and considered "classic does" does. If you painted a picture similar to "starry night" or "mona lisa" with better technique, you're probably not going to get famous because people already have those original painting ingrained in their minds (ie. replicas are not nearly worth the same as the originals). In addition, the mona lisa is no longer famous just because it's a good painting, but because it's become a large part of culture and there are too many references to it. At that point, it may no longer be about the quality of the product, but rather the name of the brand.

The 80s series were considered "classic" because they were the first to make it big (the 70s ones are not nearly as famous).

And as tape already mentioned about standing the test of time. You have to admit that a major entertainment factor in wuxia series IS the "wuxia" part, which will inevitably involve technology which no doubt will change with time. The quality of the series isn't only judged by the screenplay and acting/directing, but will also be judged on cimetography, costume design, set design, choreography/sfx, etc (which is dependent on technology/funding). Except for hardcore wuxia fanatics, I don't think most of the generations born post 2000s will want to sit for 40 hrs to watch a series from the 80s.

[IPlayWow]

The thing that probably changed TVB the most is the 1997 restoring Hong Kong to the Mainland.....Boy can you imagine drama series from Taiwan if the Mainland were to unite with it?

[Ken Cheng]

The thing that probably changed TVB the most is the 1997 restoring Hong Kong to the Mainland....

People like to blame TVB's decline on the return of Hong Kong to Chinese control, but although that *might* be one factor, TVB had started getting lazy and uncreative long before 1997.

I think starting from 1988 onwards, TVB generally stopped trying daring new ideas.

[S Beaver]

Not sure how Hong Kong returning to Chinese control really affects TVB, but the economical growth of mainland China and it's rise to the world stage really attracts a lot of the HK actors/actresses, directors, producers, etc.

As for new ideas, I rarely see new ideas anywhere these days anywhere. It's always some remake, adaption of some popular story, or the same old stories with a slight twist.

[Yuet Thi]

I can't imagine any young teen or preteen watching it now and enjoying it, and I can't imagine people in the future going back to mark those as masterpieces.

I'm 15 and I'm enjoy the 80's and 90's a lot more than the more flashy ones today.

[Ken Cheng]

Not sure how Hong Kong returning to Chinese control really affects TVB.

It does because the Chinese government puts pressure on the media to not produce anything too controversial. If you compare pre-1997 TVB work with its post-1997 output, you'll see that the material is tamed *way* down. Many themes and motifs from TVB's pre-1997 work would probably not pass muster today because the authorities consider it too "subversive" or contains various "anti-social" messages.

It's not overt or obvious, but you'll discover the differences if you compare the works of the two eras carefully and reflect upon them.

[S Beaver]

To be honest, I haven't watched every TVB series out there, but the ones I've seem are pretty tame anyways. I actually find the 80s series a lot more "homely" than a lot of series produced today (whether HK or mainland). Though, I admit most of what I saw was wuxia, which is probably a lot less politically intriguing than modern series

[Ken Cheng]

To be honest, I haven't watched every TVB series out there, but the ones I've seem are pretty tame anyways. I actually find the 80s series a lot more "homely" than a lot of series produced today (whether HK or mainland). Though, I admit most of what I saw was wuxia, which is probably a lot less politically intriguing than modern series

1970s and 1980s TVB series were much more topical and daring, taking on issues ranging from drug abuse to homosexuality to gang violence and domestic violence. Moreover, the series of those times tended not to encourage viewers to look at those issues from a conservative, intolerant point of view, but to look at them neutrally, objectively, and independently...allowing viewers to decide for themselves how they felt about such issues.

Today, to the extent that TVB treats these issues *at all* in its series, it usually reflects the Chinese government's party line on these matters.

[tape]

1970s and 1980s TVB series were much more topical and daring, taking on issues ranging from drug abuse to homosexuality to gang violence and domestic violence. Moreover, the series of those times tended not to encourage viewers to look at those issues from a conservative, intolerant point of view, but to look at them neutrally, objectively, and independently...allowing viewers to decide for themselves how they felt about such issues.

Today, to the extent that TVB treats these issues *at all* in its series, it usually reflects the Chinese government's party line on these matters.

This is probably true up until the last few years. 'When Heaven Burns' features cannibalism, casual sex, and a bunch of other things that would have been serious no no's a couple years ago. I hope TVB produces more shows like that, as I cringe every time they show one of those comedic family dramas that the housewives all eat up.

I haven't watched any of the modern era series from the 70's and few from the 80's, but the 90's and early 00's were definitely plagued with conservative views and personified contrary ideas as the evil bad guy that is doomed to fail.

[Ken Cheng]

This is probably true up until the last few years. 'When Heaven Burns' features cannibalism, casual sex, and a bunch of other things that would have been serious no no's a couple years ago.

That's a good sign. Not that I support cannibalism or even casual sex, but I prefer that media treat these subjects honestly and openly rather than towing some government-mandated line or censoring all discussion of them.

[PJ]

Early to mid 90s is my favorite period for wuxia pian. I reckon 80% of it is due to nostalgia

[jadebunny9]

Early to mid 90s is my favorite period for wuxia pian. I reckon 80% of it is due to nostalgia

Word.

It's probably just whatever you first watched creating a lasting impression.

[LuNaR]

imo the best loch is 94 and best roch was 95. best domd was 98

[IPlayWow]

Not sure how Hong Kong returning to Chinese control really affects TVB, but the economical growth of mainland China and it's rise to the world stage really attracts a lot of the HK actors/actresses, directors, producers, etc.

As for new ideas, I rarely see new ideas anywhere these days anywhere. It's always some remake, adaption of some popular story, or the same old stories with a slight twist.

Well some of my friends on WoW said some Hong Kong TV series before 1997 did mention and talk small talk about anti communist in the mainland.

Now imagine if TVB was to make a series and talk about anti communist in today 2012.......not likely it will be shown.....or if they do get to show it, it will be edited.....just like how they edited the 2011 Zhang JiZhong version of Journey to the West from 70 episodes to 60....

[Ken Cheng]

Well some of my friends on WoW said some Hong Kong TV series before 1997 did mention and talk small talk about anti communist in the mainland.

Now imagine if TVB was to make a series and talk about anti communist in today 2012.......not likely it will be shown.....or if they do get to show it, it will be edited.....just like how they edited the 2011 Zhang JiZhong version of Journey to the West from 70 episodes to 60....

It doesn't even need to be something as overt as criticizing the Chinese Communist Party or the government in Beijing. Take the classic Chow Yun Fat series THE BUND from 1980, for example. Would the CCP allow TVB to make such a series today? THE BUND glorified the criminal/gangster lifestyle, which is something that CCP would likely disapprove of. It probably explains why TVB doesn't really make BUND-style gangster dramas these days.

On the other hand, Chinese TV remade THE BUND as SHANGHAI BUND a few years ago (2007), but having watched the remake, I noticed that the personal violence and anti-social elements were toned *way* down in the remake compared to the 1980 TVB original.

[IPlayWow]

It doesn't even need to be something as overt as criticizing the Chinese Communist Party or the government in Beijing. Take the classic Chow Yun Fat series THE BUND from 1980, for example. Would the CCP allow TVB to make such a series today? THE BUND glorified the criminal/gangster lifestyle, which is something that CCP would likely disapprove of. It probably explains why TVB doesn't really make BUND-style gangster dramas these days.

On the other hand, Chinese TV remade THE BUND as SHANGHAI BUND a few years ago (2007), but having watched the remake, I noticed that the personal violence and anti-social elements were toned *way* down in the remake compared to the 1980 TVB original.

Speaking of the ShangHai series.....ATV Hong Kong ShangHai GodFather was awesome.....

[PJ]

It doesn't even need to be something as overt as criticizing the Chinese Communist Party or the government in Beijing. Take the classic Chow Yun Fat series THE BUND from 1980, for example. Would the CCP allow TVB to make such a series today? THE BUND glorified the criminal/gangster lifestyle, which is something that CCP would likely disapprove of. It probably explains why TVB doesn't really make BUND-style gangster dramas these days.

I'm pretty sure The Bund has been aired on Mainland TV stations many times over the years. Since CCP has allowed Mainland viewers to see the show, there's no point to not allow such show to be made in China.

[Ken Cheng]

I'm pretty sure The Bund has been aired on Mainland TV stations many times over the years. Since CCP has allowed Mainland viewers to see the show, there's no point to not allow such show to be made in China.

One thing to note about the DVD of the series that was released in 2009: some of the more graphically violent scenes from the original broadcast were somewhat curtailed. I smell the hand of the CCP in this.

I bet CCP members *did* enjoy the scene in which Hui Mun Keung and Ding Lik's gunmen mowed down a crew of KMT enforcers, though.

[Trien Chieu]

Maybe the CG enhances made me love the 90's even more, some of the 90's dramas also had a closer storyline than the 80's dramas.

DGSD 1996
LOCH 1994
ROCH 1995
SOD 1996

I do however acknowledge the calibre of acting in the early 80's completely trumps the actors in the 90's. Tony Leung, Andy Lau, Chan yook leen, etc etc

I prefer the 80s over the 90s. The character in the 90s serials seem to be dirty and hairy. I prefer the 80s clean looking.

[jadebunny9]

I prefer the 80s over the 90s. The character in the 90s serials seem to be dirty and hairy. I prefer the 80s clean looking.

What? Dirty and hairy? *flabbergasted*