Am I the only one who prefers the early-mid 90's TVB dramas to the 80's?

[Mobyz]

Maybe the CG enhances made me love the 90's even more, some of the 90's dramas also had a closer storyline than the 80's dramas.

DGSD 1996
LOCH 1994
ROCH 1995
SOD 1996

I do however acknowledge the calibre of acting in the early 80's completely trumps the actors in the 90's. Tony Leung, Andy Lau, Chan yook leen, etc etc

[Yuet Thi]

I believe you're not the only one. I'm with you on DGSD '96 and SOD '96, but LOCH '82 and ROCH '83 still remains my favorite. Sure the 90s may be more accurate, but the cast of the earlier ones are unbeatable. When people say Huang Yaoshi or Ouyang Feng, they immediately think of the 80s. Not to mention those wonderful theme songs and background music.

[S Beaver]

the thing that really bothers me about the 80s is the make-up, mostly in retrospect. It didn't seem that bad (and even nice) when i was younger, but when looking back on it, the make-up was so over-exaggerated. In general, the acting tends to be a bit exaggered, too.

I think a lot of things are done by first impressions. I actually think LOCH '92 was done just as well as the 80s version, but it'll always be overlooked (and I suppose it was a bit dry compared to the extra fleshy drama they added in for the 80s) and I liked ROCH 95 better just b/c I saw it first and Louis Koo is just too sexy

[kidd]

I like the 90s adaptation too. DGSD and SOD were especially well done.

[Ken Cheng]

I think a lot of things are done by first impressions.

Well, I just *have* to offer a bit of a rebuttal here.

Too often, I see "nostalgia" used as a buzz word to dismiss the works of the past. I've read/heard too many times that things that people loved in the past weren't really that great, but people just miss them out of "nostalgia."

I don't think that's fair, though.

When we look at a work of art, we need to judge it on its own terms and not compare it to what later interpreters of the subject were able to do with it because they had better resources available to them. Just as things aren't automatically better because they're older, they're not automatically worse either (although I personally think many of our cultural products overall have declined in quality over time). People don't get nostalgic over crap, after all. If they loved it then and love it now, there must be something innately worthwhile about it.

This is not to say that everything TVB did during the 1980s was automatically gold (you should read some of my criticisms of SPW '84) and everything it's produced since then is garbage (although quite a bit of it is), but I take exception when something that had some real quality behind it is dismissed simply because it's older.

[kidd]

But, nostalgia did play a role in people's evaluation of the series. From personal experience, it did affect me. I've always thought LOCH82 to be the best LOCH ever and Barbara Yung and Felix Wong is the best HR and GJ. Everyone said it's the best and I also remember it to be good when I watch it way back when I was a little kid. But, when I rewatched it as an adult, I find it not as good as I thought it to be. I also don't think the late Barbara Yung and Felix Wong's acting was that great. Same case with ROCH. I never finish rewatching them.

[Yuet Thi]

I do however acknowledge the calibre of acting in the early 80's completely trumps the actors in the 90's. Tony Leung, Andy Lau, Chan yook leen, etc etc

Well, that's not really what I meant when I said the cast is unbeatable. What I meant was that they did such a good job at it, you'd think they were the real. It's imprinted in your minds. You can have a lad on the streets play the part and do a great job at it and say he is unbeatable.

First impressions does play a part for some people but not for me. I saw LOCH '94 first but I don't think it's the best.

[Ken Cheng]

But, nostalgia did play a role in people's evaluation of the series.

It can, but it doesn't turn crap into gold, and gold into crap. What was good about it then is still good about it now. What *didn't* work about it then *still* doesn't work now.

[wkeej]

Let me see. The wuxia series I remember are:
1. LOCH - prefer the 70/80s one, starring Barbara Yung
2. HSDS - would like the 70s? Adam Cheng/Liza Wang series but the ending is totally twisted. Hence, I prefer the 2000s one starring GYY as Zhuo Zhiruo.
3. DGSG - no preference, though the early 2000s China series with beautiful Ah Zhu is fine and Tall/hunky XF. Waiting for the one where DY has three wives in the end. Is there?
4. Crimson Sabre - no preference. liked the series generally.
5. ROCH: no preference. can't stand YG but adorable GX is nice.

[tape]

It can, but it doesn't turn crap into gold, and gold into crap. What was good about it then is still good about it now. What *didn't* work about it then *still* doesn't work now.

I don't think he's calling LOCH '82 an inferior product, just saying that nostalgia plays at least a small part in it's high rating, and I agree. Many of us have watched it as one of our first wuxia experiences, and likely at a young and impressionable age. It is a good adaption but perhaps 10-20% inflated due to nostalgia in most cases, and infinitely so in other cases. My aunt for one, will absolutely not watch any wuxia series not from the 70's and 80's, and starts talking about how bad current series are when I am positive she has not watched any for longer than 10 minutes in the past two decades.

I don't have much interest in JY remakes past 2000, and I can only attribute it to nostalgia. From what I've seen and read, there really isn't a reason for me to NOT watch the newer ones rather than rewatching the 80's ones from time to time, but I'm just not interested.

[Ken Cheng]

I don't think he's calling LOCH '82 an inferior product, just saying that nostalgia plays at least a small part .

As long as that's understood. Too often, I've endured the specious argument, "It sucked. You only THINK it was good because you grew up with it," which is bullsith that I can't leave unchallenged.

[tape]

Well, I just *have* to offer a bit of a rebuttal here.

Too often, I see "nostalgia" used as a buzz word to dismiss the works of the past. I've read/heard too many times that things that people loved in the past weren't really that great, but people just miss them out of "nostalgia."

I don't think that's fair, though.

When we look at a work of art, we need to judge it on its own terms and not compare it to what later interpreters of the subject were able to do with it because they had better resources available to them. Just as things aren't automatically better because they're older, they're not automatically worse either (although I personally think many of our cultural products overall have declined in quality over time). People don't get nostalgic over crap, after all. If they loved it then and love it now, there must be something innately worthwhile about it.

This is not to say that everything TVB did during the 1980s was automatically gold (you should read some of my criticisms of SPW '84) and everything it's produced since then is garbage (although quite a bit of it is), but I take exception when something that had some real quality behind it is dismissed simply because it's older.

I agree with your point, but I think that the 80's wuxia series might not stand the test of time, and the people that remember it really will just be old nostalgic geezers (including me).

I can't imagine any young teen or preteen watching it now and enjoying it, and I can't imagine people in the future going back to mark those as masterpieces. Perhaps a showcase of the 80's style, but it's value will likely be considered nostalgic in nature in the coming years.

An example would be the Shaw Brothers films for me. It was before my time, and I can't really understand the appeal of the films. People who are fans of it likely consider them iconic and having monumental value, but I feel it is just nostalgic value.

[Ken Cheng]

I agree with your point, but I think that the 80's wuxia series might not stand the test of time, and the people that remember it really will just be old nostalgic geezers (including me).

We're not going to live long enough to find out. What did Shakespeare's contemporaries think of his dramas? What did Beethoven and Mozart's contemporaries think of their music? Did they expect their work to endure beyond their own times?

How will the music of the Beatles be regarded in three-hundred years time? How about this year's best books and movies?

Ultimately, none of that will be known until all of us are long dead and gone.

[tape]

We're not going to live long enough to find out. What did Shakespeare's contemporaries think of his dramas? What did Beethoven and Mozart's contemporaries think of their music? Did they expect their work to endure beyond their own times?

How will the music of the Beatles be regarded in three-hundred years time? How about this year's best books and movies?

Ultimately, none of that will be known until all of us are long dead and gone.

Those are different mediums, and HK wuxia series of the 80's is an extremely inaccessible and specific segment that I don't think it would gain sudden notoriety like the other things you mention.

By not standing the test of time, I mean that I don't think these series will gain any appreciable amount of new viewership in the next decade, and will pretty much die down in the next two or three. I fully expect to still be alive and kicking when these series are more or less forgotten.

This isn't to knock the 80's series, they're more successful than the 90's and 00's on most metrics, I just don't think the genre itself ages very well.

[Ken Cheng]

Yeah. Never mind me. Just defending my turf. You know how it is with us old men.

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[kidd]

By not standing the test of time, I mean that I don't think these series will gain any appreciable amount of new viewership in the next decade, and will pretty much die down in the next two or three. I fully expect to still be alive and kicking when these series are more or less forgotten.

Even my mom and dad said I'm an ancient person for watching old series and movies and liking old things.

[junny]

I don't mind most of the 90s adaptations - DGSD 97 is my favourite of the 90s lot, I didn't really care for the 80s one. Music-wise, aka theme songs and such, I think the 80s wuxia series have the definite advantage.

[IPlayWow]

TVB from the 80 to early 2000 is still better than most of the stuff they making today.....just check for yourself

[smurf120]

I have always contended that 90's State of Divinity and DGSD were better in quality, acting, and original intent of the story. I still feel that 80's LOCH, ROCH, and HSDS were more emotionally superior in the way that edits connected the audience (i.e. killing the pet chickens in the tomb in ROCH making XLN cry (She has emotions!!!); the 7 Freaks Camaraderie in LOCH; or the brotherhood of the Wudang 7 in HSDS).

The extended portion of YSS and ZCS courtship and scenes on the island still give me goosebumps (acting caliber of Dodo Cheng and Simon Yam).

To be fair, after stubbornly refusing to watch the 90's ROCH and LOCH, I had to admit that the 90s versions were willing to be darker (and after reading the translations) and more closer to the novels.

I also freely admit that Chinese videotape rentals in Chicago during the 80's were quite an expensive habit, whereas the choices during the 90s were significantly larger and cheaper (with satellite butting in). If you were a child of the 80's in the states and owned copies of TVB shows, you probably watched the tapes till they broke, then had to learn how to repair with scotch-tape and operate a screwdriver - I know I did.

[Ian Liew]

I prefer the 90s LOCH and ROCH as being more watchable today - the 80s versions have a lot of dragging filler which at that time felt like it added depth (I had no idea what the novel was then anyway), and some of the plot changes get on my nerves - my favourite scene in LOCH (the events leading to the introduction of Huang Yaoshi at Returning Cloud Villa) was completely removed to make way for Lu Guanying and Cheng Youjia's love story. However, the 80s strength lies not so much in the story flow or even in the memorable acting of Felix Wong and Barbara Yung, but in the main supporting cast. Lok Ying Kwan and Chu Tit Woh cannot possibly compare with Kenneth Chun Kong and Yeung Chak Lam in terms of the sheer class and menace those two men could exude on screen simply by looking at you. Newton Lai, excellent actor though he is was miscast as Yideng, while Lau Siu Ming was pretty much made for the role, and managed to exude a very dignified royal air around him. I did, however, prefer Lam Kar Wah to Patrick Tse in his portrayal as Yang Tiexin - he made me feel for the character so much more.