View Poll Results: Most likely result of a fair fight between a Great and the Big Dipper Formation?

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  • The Great wins!

    3 37.50%
  • The Big Dipper Formation wins!

    1 12.50%
  • tie!

    4 50.00%
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Thread: For reals: one Great vs. Cheun Jen Disciples, 7 Star Formation, no interference.

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default For reals: one Great vs. Cheun Jen Disciples, 7 Star Formation, no interference.

    Despite several opportunities during LOCH, we never really did get a fair fight between *one* Great and all seven of the original Cheun Jen 7 Disciples using their 7 Stars Big Dipper Formation, which was designed to fight a Great. In each case, there was some mitigating circumstance that either put the Great or the Formation at an unfair advantage.

    But what would be the more likely result of a confrontation between one healthy, full-powered Great against seven healthy original Cheun Jen 7 Disciples using their 7 Stars Big Dipper Formation with no external circumstances to put either side at a disadvantage?

  2. #2
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    They both faint/collapse/die due to exhaustion.
    TC to Ken: "You need to watch the ending of ROCH 83."

  3. #3
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    I always thought his Divine Flick should be able to destroy the formation. Flick a couple pebbles simultaneously at different priests and the only way they can avoid is to merge inner strength like earlier against Mei to block, or dodge out of the way and lose some positioning in the formation.

    Divine Flick is underrated against people with weaker inner power imho. It's like a gun against anyone who doesn't have close enough inner strength to block it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    I always thought his Divine Flick should be able to destroy the formation. Flick a couple pebbles simultaneously at different priests and the only way they can avoid is to merge inner strength like earlier against Mei to block, or dodge out of the way and lose some positioning in the formation.
    I think the QZ7 are going to keep Yellow Pharmacist busy so he won't be able to execute a divine finger flick.
    Last edited by PJ; 04-14-12 at 05:33 PM.
    TC to Ken: "You need to watch the ending of ROCH 83."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    I think the QZ7 are going to keep Yellow Pharmacist busy so he won't be able to execute a divine finger flick.
    Wow, I remember yesterdayI randomly saw a episode of LOCH on TV, and it reminded me of Babel translations from way back then that translated him as the Yellow Pharmacist, and I was thinking of clever a way to bring that up. Can't believe you decided to do it during the same day!

    But yes, within the context of LOCH I imagine he's kept too busy to do it, but I don't really buy it as being realistic or consistent. The descriptions of the fight including him skating around dodging (not blocking) attacks, so there should be a chance for him to just flick out a pebble or some inner strength at some weird angle towards the priests.

    Consider how effective it is against the Jin goons, who are more or less at the weaker Quanzhen masters' levels, and how they can't dodge and can barely see it. By all accounts, I feel The Yellow Pharmacist should be able to flick while he is skating around dodging at some of the priests, especially if he doesn't use it until hours into the fight when they least expect it.

    Or just use it before they get a chance to jump in and surround you. Flick flick flick.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    I always thought his Divine Flick should be able to destroy the formation. Flick a couple pebbles simultaneously at different priests and the only way they can avoid is to merge inner strength like earlier against Mei to block, or dodge out of the way and lose some positioning in the formation.

    Divine Flick is underrated against people with weaker inner power imho. It's like a gun against anyone who doesn't have close enough inner strength to block it.
    Huang Yaoshi did use it and it was still a tie.

    這彈指神通的功夫,黃藥師原可算得并世無雙,當日他与周伯通比玩石彈、在歸云庄彈石指點梅超風,都是使的這 門功夫, 郭靖在臨安牛家村見了他与全真七子一戰,學到了其中若干訣竅,彈指的手法雖遠不及黃藥師奧妙,但力大勁厲, 只听得錚的一聲,劍身抖動(LOCH, chapter 30).

    Personally, I put my money on the Seven Masters. If one looks at the descriptive language of the battle and one will see that the descriptions of Huang usually have negative or neutral collocates. Whereas the descriptions of the Seven Masters have positive collocates.
    Last edited by Athena; 04-15-12 at 09:16 PM.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    The other 3 Greats would probably lose eventually, but didn't Huang Yaoshi have a game plan the second time the met to occupy the Polaris position and hence remain unbeaten? Or did the Polaris position simply mean that the formation couldn't reach you anymore (not that you could reach them) in which case he could flick pebbles at will? Or does prior knowledge of the formation count as external factors which upset the balance?

    I thought that when Huang Yaoshi almost made it to Polaris Ma Yu had already conceded defeat.

  8. #8
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Occupying that position is only effective if you're both much better than the formation users AND the formation users weren't proficient.

    HYS is much better than the QZ7 but the (original) QZ7 are fully proficient with the Big Dipper Formation and would prevent HYS from using it against them.

    I'm fairly certain that HYS would lose if it's the LOCH version. I felt that the direction of the fight seemed to tend to the QZ7's advantage until circumstances occurred.

    The ROCH incarnation had formulated a counter so he could possibly prevail.

  9. #9
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I imagine that the 7 Stars Big Dipper Formation is something like a "full court press" that makes it very difficult for its target to move. Every move potentially puts the target into the path of a swordpoint.

  10. #10
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Based on the reading, I agree with Athena's interpretation and extrapolation.
    Blademaster. Hero. General. He was the best there ever was.
    Butcher. Murderer. Traitor. All that he loved, he had destroyed.
    Matheius Randas.
    That Merciless Blade - Legend of the Arctic Wolf.

  11. #11
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I feel cheated that we never got to see such a fight play out to its natural conclusion. ALWAYS some circumstance intervened.

    Of course, the natural conclusion would likely have been a dead Great or several dead Cheun Jen Sect elders, which would have screwed up numerous plot points.

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