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Thread: Technically, weren't Central Divinity and North Beggar citizens of the Jin Empire?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Technically, weren't Central Divinity and North Beggar citizens of the Jin Empire?

    Hung 7 Gung was known as the North Beggar, and his Beggar's Union activities were based in northern China, which during LOCH, was occupied by the Jurchen Jin Empire. Moreover, as a youth, Hung 7 had been a slave to this empire.

    Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung's temple at Mt. Chung Nam was also within the jurisdiction of the Jin Empire, and the historical Wong Chung Yeung was even a Jin government official in his younger years prior to becoming a Taoist sage.

    In light of all this, although both men would renounce such citizenship, were Central Divinity and North Beggar technically citizens of the Jin Empire?

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    Senior Member Son of Light's Avatar
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    Well, to draw an analogy...
    Are Singaporeans during 1942 to 1945 citizens of the Japanese Empire?
    I think the ans would be similar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Light View Post
    Well, to draw an analogy...
    Are Singaporeans during 1942 to 1945 citizens of the Japanese Empire?
    I think the ans would be similar.
    A three-year occupation is different from a century-long entrenchment, though. Even those born into Japanese-occupied Singapore didn't grow up in one because the occupation ended after just a few short years. In Wong Chung Yeung and Hung 7 Gung's cases, though, they were born into, grew into adults in, and eventually (Wong) died an old man in the Jin Empire.

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    Senior Member Son of Light's Avatar
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    Well, the basic is still the same, they were being under the rule of invaders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Light View Post
    Well, the basic is still the same, they were being under the rule of invaders.
    We're not talking about a basic matter of trivia, however, but a material difference in terms of the characters' experiences. Central Divinity and North Beggar spent their adult lives struggling against the Jin Empire, but were legally its citizens.

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    Senior Member Son of Light's Avatar
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    As far as people those days are concerned, nationality is determine by race and virtue, not law.
    It's a different mindset compare to us today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Light View Post
    As far as people those days are concerned, nationality is determine by race and virtue, not law.
    It's a different mindset compare to us today.
    Historically, there's an interesting twist to this in regards to Wong Chung Yeung.

    Although in LOCH and ROCH, Wong Chung Yeung is portrayed as a Jin-hating Sung patriot, the real, historical Wong Chung Yeung worked as an official of the Jin government during his younger years, and was quite content to do so. He was born and raised in northern China, which at the time, was under Jin control.

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    Senior Member Son of Light's Avatar
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    True, but he later decided that he don't feel like serving a foreign master, and thus decides to become a monk, and later, a Taoist and set up his own sect at the end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Light View Post
    True, but he later decided that he don't feel like serving a foreign master, and thus decides to become a monk, and later, a Taoist and set up his own sect at the end.
    I think the choice to become a Taoist had less to do with nationality/ethnicity issues than it did with Wong Chung Yeung's growing disillusioned with politics and government. He had found enlightenment in Taoist thought, and decided to pursue that, and would perhaps have done the same had he worked for the Sung government.

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