Mie Jue vs Xie Xun

[Banh Mi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60GR3vNKHt8
Still alot of twirling on Dooku's part. He outranges Yoda by alot. And when they go sword to sword. You can clearly see that he's making contact with the lower half of his blade, and not the sweet spot, 3/4 way towards the upper end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQTzGzVSHec
Here he still swings too close to his body. In any form of sword art, the most respected idea is the range between the blade and the person. A rational opponent would just take a step back so that Dooku's short swings would miss while being at ideal range to strike. The problem with swinging so close to the body is that there is no leverage. Which is sometimes acknowledged in the duels when they want someone to win, like Dooku's dispatching of Obi Wan, and other times ignored like their fancy but empty flurries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtLRZuESI3k
Anakin starts with a wild telegraphing swing here that should have gotten him decapitated.
And finally Dooku gets decapited because he leans forward even though he's so close already, gets knocked off balanced and his wrists sheared off from the shortest part of Anakin's blade.

Wuxia adaptions don't count though. Jin Yong is pretty descriptive when he describes his fights, none of the adaptions have cared too much about following his play by plays in their choreography. Whereas Star Wars' choreography is as the creator envisioned.

[MieJueXMaceWindu]

Hey guys, look what I made. I'm sooooo happy! I hope you all like it lol. It's funny at the end.

I think that Wuxia fighters are definitely on par with many of the Jedis. The Star Wars universe only has a handful exceptional fighters. Mace Windu is the best thing that the Jedis have on their side.

How many does Wuxia have?

[ChanceEncounter]

Wuxia adaptions don't count though. Jin Yong is pretty descriptive when he describes his fights, none of the adaptions have cared too much about following his play by plays in their choreography. Whereas Star Wars' choreography is as the creator envisioned.

Even going by those descriptions, none of them would be of much use in a real fight. He relies too much on established forms and stances, and if there's anything that combat sports and martial arts theory of the last century have taught us, is that established forms and stances are all hogwash. They'll do nothing except get you killed in a fight.

The choreography isn't George Lucas's vision. George Lucas scripts the outcome and major details of the fight, but he gave a lot of free reign to the choreographers about how they executed the scenes themselves. Many times, they had to script around the limitations of the actors or the limitations of technology. If we're going purely by choreography, we're left to believe that Darth Vader hilariously regressed from Episodes 1, 2, 3 to Episodes 4, 5, 6 in swordsmanship, when the canon indicates nothing of the sort. Even in his suit, Darth Vader was supposed to be more powerful and a better swordsman than his younger self on account of his greater mastery of the force.

[Banh Mi]

Even going by those descriptions, none of them would be of much use in a real fight. He relies too much on established forms and stances, and if there's anything that combat sports and martial arts theory of the last century have taught us, is that established forms and stances are all hogwash. They'll do nothing except get you killed in a fight.

Maybe not intricate stances, and I get the feeling you're referring more to kata. But basic stances are the bread and butter of all martial arts. All pugilists observe the importance of the jab, cross, hook and uppercut. They are taught as strict forms because they maximise the power a person may generate. A step further is trademark combinations that fighters will be known for. In grappling there are also very specific steps in doing a technique, and the various techniques you can chain them with are the same for most people as well.

The choreography isn't George Lucas's vision. George Lucas scripts the outcome and major details of the fight, but he gave a lot of free reign to the choreographers about how they executed the scenes themselves. Many times, they had to script around the limitations of the actors or the limitations of technology. If we're going purely by choreography, we're left to believe that Darth Vader hilariously regressed from Episodes 1, 2, 3 to Episodes 4, 5, 6 in swordsmanship, when the canon indicates nothing of the sort. Even in his suit, Darth Vader was supposed to be more powerful and a better swordsman than his younger self on account of his greater mastery of the force.

I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the information, I stand corrected.

[Ken Cheng]

The choreography isn't George Lucas's vision. George Lucas scripts the outcome and major details of the fight, but he gave a lot of free reign to the choreographers about how they executed the scenes themselves. Many times, they had to script around the limitations of the actors or the limitations of technology. If we're going purely by choreography, we're left to believe that Darth Vader hilariously regressed from Episodes 1, 2, 3 to Episodes 4, 5, 6 in swordsmanship, when the canon indicates nothing of the sort. Even in his suit, Darth Vader was supposed to be more powerful and a better swordsman than his younger self on account of his greater mastery of the force.

No amount of Force mastery was going to help armored and helmeted Vader get that lightsaber over his head using his hands. Levitating it there with the Force would be a different matter, of course.

[tape]

The choreography isn't George Lucas's vision. George Lucas scripts the outcome and major details of the fight, but he gave a lot of free reign to the choreographers about how they executed the scenes themselves. Many times, they had to script around the limitations of the actors or the limitations of technology. If we're going purely by choreography, we're left to believe that Darth Vader hilariously regressed from Episodes 1, 2, 3 to Episodes 4, 5, 6 in swordsmanship, when the canon indicates nothing of the sort. Even in his suit, Darth Vader was supposed to be more powerful and a better swordsman than his younger self on account of his greater mastery of the force.

I'm by no means a Star Wars buff, but from the little I've read, Vader adopted a different, more brutish style due to the lost of limbs and his reliance on the power suit. He lost too much agility and quickness, and the suit weighed hundreds of pounds.

I forget what the different styles were called, but he pretty much had to completely change how he fought and his new powerful and direct blows supposedly made him even deadlier. The weakness to his new form of fighting is just dodging and running around as much as you can to tire him out. I don't know how much was retconned, and how much was planned, but just based on the limited technology it's kind of neat that they are able to explain why the old, slow Obiwan-Vader fight scene compared to the newer flashier fights kind of makes sense.

[Ian Liew]

I'm by no means a Star Wars buff, but from the little I've read, Vader adopted a different, more brutish style due to the lost of limbs and his reliance on the power suit. He lost too much agility and quickness, and the suit weighed hundreds of pounds.

I forget what the different styles were called, but he pretty much had to completely change how he fought and his new powerful and direct blows supposedly made him even deadlier. The weakness to his new form of fighting is just dodging and running around as much as you can to tire him out. I don't know how much was retconned, and how much was planned, but just based on the limited technology it's kind of neat that they are able to explain why the old, slow Obiwan-Vader fight scene compared to the newer flashier fights kind of makes sense.

That's the problem with prequels, when the past looks so much more flashy than the future. We have to believe that Vader became a slow tank, Obi-Wan was too old, and Luke had no proper swordsman teacher, which is why Lucasfilm's belated introduction of wushu to the lightsaber duels resulted in such spectacular fights in the prequel, and comparatively dull fights in the original trilogy. My jaw dropped when Darth Maul took on Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon Jinn i that Theed hangar - the entire debacle which preceded that scene was forgiven. If only Lucas had known Shaw Brothers people like Johnny Wong or Cheng Siu-Tung when he worked on the original trilogy.

[hyoyatika]

But dun forget Jinhua Popo lost because of the superior weapon, where as XX has the DS. I would give this to XX if he was not blind.

And let's not forget that Jinhua Popo was the weakest amongst the 4 Guardians. Blind or not, XX would take Miejue to the clearners.

[PJ]

But dun forget Jinhua Popo lost because of the superior weapon, where as XX has the DS. I would give this to XX if he was not blind.

I think my point was that Xie Xun with DS and being blind was == Jinhua Popo, who =~ Miejue without HS (estimated by JHPP), but who < Miejue with HS. Based on this logic alone, Xie Xun < Miejue under the same conditions.

However, I think XX's blindness gave JH a big advantage to utilize her sneakiness. I don't think it confers the same advantage to Miejue.

If XX != blind, I would bet on him over JH or MJ.

[PJ]

And let's not forget that Jinhua Popo was the weakest amongst the 4 Guardians.

I'm not sure this is the case. It was said the ranking of the 4 Guardians isn't based on MA level, but I don't remember it saying she was the weakest either.

Based on feats, I'd probably put her above Wei Yixiao.