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Thread: What was the actual level of Chiu Tze Ging's martial arts?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default What was the actual level of Chiu Tze Ging's martial arts?

    During ROCH, Chiu Tze Ging was said to be the best martial artist among the third generation Cheun Jen Sect Taoists, but his martial arts level seemed very low. Other than scrubs, just whom could he definitely defeat? I'm not sure that his martial arts could even match that of the likes of Lo Yau Gerk or Ohr Jen Ngok.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    ROCH chapter 24:

    法王...眼见尹赵二人武功不弱,心想全真派剑术内功果然名不虚传,自己此番幸得一出手便制了先机,否则当 真动手,却也须二三十招之後方能取胜。

    Golden Wheel Monk thought he could not subdue Zhao and Yin without 20-30 stances. Probably an overestimate, which Goldie is famous for. Nonetheless, it does speak favorably for Zhao.

    Maybe he was around the level of Lu Youjiao, Ying Gu, and LOCH Ouyang Ke.
    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    So what if 1000 arrows are targetted at our wuxia hero? LHC's missile breaking stance can deflect thousands of projectiles in 1 stance and send them back to the enemy. The more arrows the better!

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    ROCH chapter 24:

    法王...眼见尹赵二人武功不弱,心想全真派剑术内功果然名不虚传,自己此番幸得一出手便制了先机,否则当 真动手,却也须二三十招之後方能取胜。

    Golden Wheel Monk thought he could not subdue Zhao and Yin without 20-30 stances. Probably an overestimate, which Goldie is famous for. Nonetheless, it does speak favorably for Zhao.

    Maybe he was around the level of Lu Youjiao, Ying Gu, and LOCH Ouyang Ke.
    That's not bad; it's better than I'd previously believed his skills to be.

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    That's actually downright unbelievable. That would mean his skills are close to the Quanzhen masters of LOCH, and I believe he is of similar or even younger age than them during LOCH.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    That's actually downright unbelievable. That would mean his skills are close to the Quanzhen masters of LOCH, and I believe he is of similar or even younger age than them during LOCH.
    I can believe that his skills were as good as perhaps those of the younger Sheun But Yee or Gok Dai Tung's during the LOCH era.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I can believe that his skills were as good as perhaps those of the younger Sheun But Yee or Gok Dai Tung's during the LOCH era.
    Just feels strange because the Quanzhen masters were known throughout the land and dominating wulin during the time of LOCH, and Zhao seems more or less worthless.

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Maybe Jinlun was thinking about taking both of them at the same time? If it was one on one Zhao probably wouldn't last ten stances.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Just feels strange because the Quanzhen masters were known throughout the land and dominating wulin during the time of LOCH, and Zhao seems more or less worthless.
    Ma Yuk, Yau Chui Gei, and Wong Chui 1 were the only true virtuoso martial artists among the Cheun Jen 7 Disciples during LOCH. The remaining four were only formidable as part of the 7 Stars Big Dipper Formation. Unlike Yau Chui Gei or Ma Yuk, the likes of Gok Dai Tung and Sheun But Yee during LOCH would have had no hope of soloing the Gong Nam 7 Freaks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Ma Yuk, Yau Chui Gei, and Wong Chui 1 were the only true virtuoso martial artists among the Cheun Jen 7 Disciples during LOCH. The remaining four were only formidable as part of the 7 Stars Big Dipper Formation. Unlike Yau Chui Gei or Ma Yuk, the likes of Gok Dai Tung and Sheun But Yee during LOCH would have had no hope of soloing the Gong Nam 7 Freaks.
    They still had the reputation of being fantastic martial artists -- Mei Chaofeng was not particularly confident in defeating Sun Bu'er before she actually met the rest of the Taoists. We only know that Qiu and Wang had the highest martial arts, Ma Yu had the deepest inner strength, and Tan had the highest lightness skills with Sun Bu'er being the weakest. We don't really know if the others are far behind, or just a little behind.

    The other masters likely would have had a harder fight than Qiu Chuji, but I think they would also win in the end. My impression of the fight was that Qiu Chuji was beating them down hard before he got hit by tricky, poisoned projectiles. In a contest of real martial arts, Qiu would have handily won. It seems like any scenario in which the Freaks are in trouble, those poisoned projectiles are what saved the day.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Just feels strange because the Quanzhen masters were known throughout the land and dominating wulin during the time of LOCH, and Zhao seems more or less worthless.
    Fame isn't a good indication of martial arts level. Lin Chaoying was totally unknown during her time. Li Mochou was extremely famous, much more famous than the Greats by ROCH time. It seems fame is determined by how much you put yourself out there. Zhao Zhijing being a "worthless" POS, didn't put himself out there much, but that doesn't speak for his MA.
    Last edited by PJ; 05-19-12 at 07:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    So what if 1000 arrows are targetted at our wuxia hero? LHC's missile breaking stance can deflect thousands of projectiles in 1 stance and send them back to the enemy. The more arrows the better!

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    Maybe Jinlun was thinking about taking both of them at the same time? If it was one on one Zhao probably wouldn't last ten stances.
    Yes. he was referring to both of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    So what if 1000 arrows are targetted at our wuxia hero? LHC's missile breaking stance can deflect thousands of projectiles in 1 stance and send them back to the enemy. The more arrows the better!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Fame isn't a good indication of martial arts level. Lin Chaoying was totally unknown during her time. Li Mochou was extremely famous, much more famous than the Greats by ROCH time. It seems fame is determined by how much you put yourself out there. Zhao Zhijing being a "worthless" POS, didn't put himself out there much, but that doesn't speak for his MA.
    Oh I know, but just the character portrayals are so vastly different. The Quanzhen masters are pretty legendary figures that even the lowest rung wulin members like Yang Tiexin and Guo Xiaotian know, while Zhao is someone who can't seem to get anything right.

    I wonder if Quanzhen disciples are even allowed to wander wulin the way the original seven did after Wang Chongyang died. Ma Yu at the least seems to discourage trying to wander and gain fame, and would rather people cultivate their 'tao' more.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Oh I know, but just the character portrayals are so vastly different. The Quanzhen masters are pretty legendary figures that even the lowest rung wulin members like Yang Tiexin and Guo Xiaotian know, while Zhao is someone who can't seem to get anything right.
    Well, maybe Zhao is in the same boat as Gui Xinshu, who is of the highest MA level in his story, but had poor judgment on everything else.

    I wonder if Quanzhen disciples are even allowed to wander wulin the way the original seven did after Wang Chongyang died. Ma Yu at the least seems to discourage trying to wander and gain fame, and would rather people cultivate their 'tao' more.
    We know Ma Yu is the most enlightened, so we'd expect him to do that. Wang, Qiu, and Sun are feistier. It wouldn't surprise me if they had a different opinion. But yeah, you don't see 3rd gen QZ disciples wandering around or gaining any major fame in wulin.
    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    So what if 1000 arrows are targetted at our wuxia hero? LHC's missile breaking stance can deflect thousands of projectiles in 1 stance and send them back to the enemy. The more arrows the better!

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    Senior Member Dirt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    That's actually downright unbelievable. That would mean his skills are close to the Quanzhen masters of LOCH, and I believe he is of similar or even younger age than them during LOCH.
    Well, the 7 Masters did not start learning martial arts until they were well into adulthood, perhaps into their 30's even. Zhao Zijing likely started learning martial arts as a child. So, him being near the same level as the 7 Masters at a younger age than them isn't difficult to believe. Quanzhen martial arts are very, very good and the 7 Masters were no slouches as teachers.

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    There's a bit of power inflation here going on too.

    QCJ was so incredibly strong that he tied with the 7 Freaks AND Father Burnt Wood at the same time. But the freaks were considered to be strong fighters in wulin as well. Even the girl was able to, as a child, kill two grown men during a fight where the 7 Freaks defeated 100 men.

    Yet we think of them as puny fighters (which they were compared to the Greats or even the sub-Greats) simply because they're Overshadowed by Awesome.



    In any case, I don't think he'd be as strong as the LOCH "big three" of the QZ7 but matching any of the other 4 would still be very strong.

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