Why do some people say LCH love YLS more than he loves RYY?

[Han Solo]

All translations of JY at spcnet is second edition, unless explicitly stated.

There are threads in the wuxia fiction summarizing changes from the first edition to the second edition.
I think kwok was the first person doing it.

The stickied thread summarizes changes from the second edition to the third edition.

Han Solo

[sandy1]

IMO, LHC telling RYY to wait before going inside the cave alone seems more logical than the 2nd edition, which pokit translated, so I doubt that the one we read was based on the first edition.

And I agree that all these different editions are confusing. I hope that all these changed will be summarized some time.

The translation that I read dated from 1967, the same year that the original XAJH novel was published, so it must be based on the first edition.

I also think that LHC telling RYY to wait outside the cave as in the first edition is more logical, as she was known to be a devil sect member. But JY also edited out several other passages that I think give a better background for the characters' subsequent actions. For example, in Chapter 37 (in the second ed.), just after LHC and RYY left the Peach Valley after burying Mrs. YBQ, there was originally a passage where LHC inadvertently encountered Madam Zhang, You Xun, etc. and heard about their plan to attack Hengshan. This gives LHC a stronger motivation to go to Hengshan in disguise. In the second edition, it is almost as if he disguised himself as a lark. The passage also provides an additional reason for Madam Zhang, etc. to attack Hengshan, other than being promised the Evil Resisting Sword Art by YBQ: there were widespread rumor in the jianghu that LHC had raped and killed YLS, so that RYY had broken off their relationship. But this passage also makes LHC more servile to YBQ as even though he knew that YBQ was the one who instructed Madam Zhang, etc. to attack Hengshan, he still "found his Master's action to be reasonable" and decided to keep it a secret from RYY.

Other changed/deleted scenes from the first edition:

- RYY was the one who destroyed YBQ's copy of the Evil Resisting Sword Art
- the sequence of events after Five Tyrant Ridge meeting was different

I find reading the deleted scenes in the first edition interesting --- sort of like watching the extra features on a DVD.

BTW, what is the poem in your version about? Who wrote it in YLS' old room?

[sandy1]

Thanks. I've read the stickied thread. Will try to search for Kwok's thread.

[IcySnow]

I can't seem to find the 3rd edition changes of XAJH in the stickied thread as well as that 1st -> 2nd edition change thread by Kwok which Han Solo mentioned

Can you guys provide me with the links, please?

[sandy1]

Icy, below is the relevant post by Athena from the stickied thread. I don't know if this is the same as the one in wuxiapedia.

After having read the third edition of the Smiling Proud Wanderer I have noticed a few changes here and there. As usual I will jot those changes down. However, there were only very minor changes in this edition. Adding some background info here and there, expanding on some dialogues and correcting a few mistakes.
So, 99% of the novel stays the same.

1. The first corrected mistake I noticed was when Linghu Chong was banished to repenting cliff, he noticed that there was a name carved into the rocks, Feng Qingyang.
In the second edition Linghu Chong said, this elder belonged to the [Feng] character generation. But now Jin Yong has corrected it and changed it to this elder belonged to the [Qing] generation.

2. Some background information about 廣陵散. The work of Liu Zhengfeng and Qu Yang 笑傲江湖 was derived from 廣陵散. 廣陵散 was about the famous assassin of the Warring States Period, Nie Zheng who assassinated the king of the Han State. Although Nie Zheng was successful but he was also killed immediately by the guards of the king of Han. The second part is about the sister of Nie Zheng, who retrieved her brother's body and grieved for him.
Qu Yang was impressed by Linghu Chong's chivalry and righteous character, saying that Linghu's conduct is not inferior to Warring States warriors like Nie Zheng and Jing Ke, so he hoped that Linghu Chong would find a way to preserve the lifework of Liu Zhengfeng and himself.

3. Qin Weibang, an elder of the Sun and Moon Sect is now killed. In the past, he was the one who refused to submit himself fo Ren Woxing. Sang Sanniang was ordered to feed him one of those "cocoon" pills, but first by removing the outer layer of the pill. In edition 2 Qin Weibang made another appearance at the end of the novel as an elder working for Ren Woxing. But now, Qin Weibang was convulsing and cursing, he was feeling the effects of the cocoon pill. Since, his acupoints were sealed he could only squirm and curse, Xiang Wentian kicked him to death.

4. [Xixing Dafa] was derived from the Xiaoyao School's [Beiming Shengong]. Ren Woxing told Linghu Chong that the practitioner of Beiming was a member of the Duan family during the Northern Song dynasty. This emperor Duan originally did not like the idea of stealing other people's internal strength. But after reading the will of that Xiaoyao elder, emperor Duan understood that there are no really evil martial arts. A good person using Beiming to kill evil men is doing good.
Xixing Dafa has no connections with Huagong Dafa.

5. In edition 2 when Dingjing Shi Tai was about to die, she asked the disguised Linghu Chong (Wu Tiande) who he really was. Because she would not ask the help of Ren Woxing or Ren Woxing's disciple. Linghu Chong then told her his real name, Dingjing Shi Tai would say:"You....You..." and die.
But now she adds:"Thank you, young hero." and hold his hand, her eyes filled with gratitude before she passed away.

6. Another mistake that has been corrected is that in the past, the disciples of the Northern Hengshan School never seemed to know who their teacher was. Sometimes Yihe and others would refer Dingxian Shi Tai as teacher, but sometimes she would refer Dingxian Shi Tai back to martial arts uncle. The only disciple who was consistent was Yilin, but now Yihe and others do it right too.

7. Ding Mian (martial arts brother of Zuo Lengchan) is the one who leads a group of people to prevent Linghu Chong from assuming leadership of the Northern Hengshan School. In the previous editions this was Yue Hou (Great Yin and Yang Palms). Yue Hou was a rather decent chap, so I think this change was to retain the image of him being a rather decent bloke. Ding Mian is famous for being a butcher, so humiliating him was not such a big deal.

8. Another corrected mistake is in the past Linghu Chong and Ren Yingying seems to have forgotten why Ren Woxing did not learn the the Sunflower Manuscript. Even though Ren Woxing told them the reason (castration part) after the death of Dongfang Bubai. But now Ren Woxing never tells them why he did not study the manual, the readers will only read his thoughts. What he told Linghu Chong and Ren Yingying has been turned into his own thoughts.
Linghu Chong and Ren Yingying will only find out about the castration part when they hear Lin Pingzhi talking to Yue Lingshan. And then they figure out that both that "Evil Repelling Swordsmanship" and the Sunflower Manuscript need practitioners to castrate themselves.

9.
[當日在黑木崖上圍攻東方不敗，他手中只持一枚繡花針，可是四大高手竟然無法與之相抗，此刻細想 ，並非由於東方不敗內功奇高，也不是由於招數極巧，只是他行動如電，攻守進退，全然出於對手意 料之外 。] chapter 35 edition 2

Now it has turned into: [當日在黑木崖上圍攻東方不敗，他手中只持一枚繡花針，可是四大高手竟然無法與之相抗，此刻細想 ，非因由於東方不敗內功奇高，也不是由於招數極巧，只是他行動如電，攻守進退，全然出於對手意 料之外 。] edition 3, chapter 35


10. At the end, an extra paragraph is added with Linghu Chong's thoughts on being carefree. This is the paragraph 令狐沖一生但求逍遙自在， 笑傲江湖， 自與盈盈結褵， 雖償了平生之願， 喜樂無已， 單不免受嬌妻溫柔的管束， 真要逍遙自在， 無所拘束， 郤做不到了。 突然之間， 心中響起了 笑傲江湖之曲的曲調， 忽想﹕我奏這曲子， 要高便高， 要低要低， 只有自己一個人奏琴， 才可以自由自在， 然如和盈盈合奏， 便須依照譜子奏曲， 不能任意放縱， 她高我也高， 她低我也低， 這才說得上和諧合拍。 佛家講求涅槃， 首先得做到無欲無求， 這才能夠無拘無束。 但人生在世， 要吃飯， 要穿衣， 要顧到別人， 豈有當真無欲無求？ 涅槃是無為境界， 我們做人是有為境界。 在有為境界中， 只要沒有不當得欲求， 就不會受不當的束縛， 那便是逍遙自在了.

(This is the same passage that has been translated by Renwoxing).

BTW, I can't find Kwok's thread either.

[sandy1]

This a section from the Baike Baidu entry on RYY, which contains details about the changes in the third edition pertaining to LHC and RYY's relationship. It has a side by side comparison of the relevant passages, so we could see the changes. It's in Chinese, so hopefully someone would be kind enough to translate it.


冲盈之间

一.学琴
　　【三联版】但令狐冲始终未见过那婆婆一面，只是听她语音轻柔，倒似是位大家的千金小姐，哪像陋巷贫居的 一个老妇？料想她雅善音乐，自幼深受熏冶，因之连说话的声音也好听了，至老不变.
　　【新修版】 但令狐冲始终未见过那婆婆一面，只是听她语音轻柔，倒似是位大家的千金小姐，哪像陋巷贫居的一个老妇？料想 她雅善音乐，自幼深受熏冶，因之连说话的声音也好听了，至老不变.
　　一日令狐冲问道：婆婆，我曾听曲前辈言道，那一曲笑傲江湖是从嵇康所弹的广陵散中变化出来，而广陵散则 是书写聂政刺韩王之事，之前听婆婆奏这笑傲江湖曲，却多文雅轻快之情，似与聂政慷慨决死是情景颇不相同，请 婆婆指点。那婆婆道：曲中温雅之情，是写聂政之姐的心情。他二人姐弟情深，聂政死后，她姐姐去收尸，使其弟 名垂后世。你能体会到琴韵中的差别，足见于音律颇有天分。顿了一顿，声音低了下来，说道：你我如能相处时日 多些，少君日后当能学得会这首笑傲江湖之曲，不过......那要瞧缘分了。令狐冲这些日子在绿竹巷中学琴 ，常听着那婆婆温雅亲切的言谈，想到婆婆年老，自己寿命也是不久长，这等缘分不知何日便尽，心中一酸，说道 ：但愿婆婆健康长寿，弟子性命亦得多延时日，便可多得婆婆教诲。那婆婆叹了口气，温言道：人生无常，机缘难 言。这笑傲江湖之曲，跟广林散的确略有不同。聂政奋刀前刺时，音转肃杀，聂政刺死韩王，其后为武士所杀，琴 调转到极高，再转上去琴弦便断;箫声沉到极低，低到我那竹侄吹不出来，那便是聂政的终结。此后琴箫更有大段 轻快跳跃的乐调，意思是说：侠士虽死，豪气长存，花开花落年年有侠士侠女笑傲江湖。人间侠气不绝，也因此后 段的乐调便繁花似锦。据史事云，聂政所刺的不是韩王，而是侠累，那便不足深究了。令狐冲一拍大腿，说道：婆 婆，您说得真好。弟子能得婆婆这般开导，再受十倍冤屈挫折，也不算什么。那婆婆不再言语，琴韵响起，又是奔 放跳荡的乐音。
二.倾心
　　【三联版】一个老者道：“福建泉州东南五百多里海中，有座蟠龙岛，听说人迹不至，极是荒凉。”那婆婆道 ：“正是这座小岛，你们立即动身，到蟠龙岛上去玩玩罢。这一辈子也不用回中原来啦。”
　　【新修版】一个老者道：“福建泉州东南五百多里海中，有座蟠龙岛，听说人迹不至，极是荒凉。”那婆婆道 ：“正是这座小岛，你们立即动身，到蟠龙岛上去玩玩罢。过得了七年八年，再回中原吧。”
三.密议
　　【三联版】走了一阵，盈盈道：“我爹爹说过，你既不允入教，他去夺回日月教教主之事，便不能要你相助， 可是……可是……”说着红晕上脸。令狐冲道：“我虽不属日月教，跟你却不是外人。就算你爹爹见了我，要撵我 走，我也是厚了脸皮，死赖活挨。”
　　【新修版】走了一阵，盈盈道：“我爹爹说过，你既不允入教，他去夺回日月教教主之事，便不能要你相助， 可是……可是……”说着红晕上脸。令狐冲道：“我虽不属日月教，跟你却是生死与共。就算你爹爹见了我，要撵 我走，我也是厚了脸皮，死赖活挨。”
四.绣花
　　【三联版】盈盈道：“只要你此心不渝，今后咱们相聚的日子可长着呢。”
　　【新修版】盈盈道：“只要你我此心不渝，今后咱们相聚的日子可长着呢。”
　　【三联版】令狐冲道：“盈盈，你不妨担心别人，却决计不必为我担心。我生就一副浪子性格，
　　永不会装模作样。就算我狂妄自大，在你面前，永远永远就像今天这样。”盈盈叹了口气，道：“那就好了。 ”
　　【新修版】令狐冲道：“盈盈，你不妨担心别人，却决计不必为我担心。我生就一副浪子性格，永不会装模作 样。就算我狂妄自大，在你面前，永远永远就像今天这样。”盈盈叹了口气，道：“那就好了。”随即笑问:“像 今天这样，是怎么样？”令狐冲正色道：“千秋万载，万载千秋，令狐冲是婆婆跟前的一个乖孙子。”盈盈嫣然一 笑，道：“这样，我才真正占尽了天下的好处。什么千娇百媚，青春年少，全不打紧。千秋万载，万载千秋，我任 盈盈也永远是令狐大侠身边的一个乖女孩。”
　　【三联版】令狐冲道：“是了！”伸嘴在她脸颊上轻轻一吻。盈盈满脸飞红，娇羞无限，伸手推 开了他。
　　新修版：令狐冲道：“是了！”伸嘴在她脸颊上轻轻一吻。盈盈满脸飞红，娇羞无限。
五.复仇
　　【三联版】她（盈盈）心中反而感到一阵甜意：“他从前确是对你很好，可是现下却待我好得多 了。
　　这可怪不得他，不是他对你变心，实在是你欺侮得他太也狠了。”
　　【新修版】她（盈盈）心中反而感到一阵甜意：“他从前确是对你很好，可是现下却待我更加好 得多
　　了。这可怪不得他，不是他对你变心，实在是你欺侮得他太也狠了。”
　　【三联版】盈盈心道：“谁说只有你妈妈一人？”
　　【新修版】盈盈心道：“谁说只有你妈妈一人？还有我呢！”
六.聚歼
　　【三联版】盈盈道：“正是。爹爹其实很喜欢你，何况你又是他神功大法的唯一传人。”令狐冲道：“我决不 愿加盟神教，甚么‘千秋万载，一统江湖’，甚么‘文成武德，泽被苍生’这些肉麻话，我听了就要 作呕。”
　　【新修版】盈盈道：“正是。爹爹其实很喜欢你，何况你又是他神功大法的唯一传人。”令狐冲道：“其实我 对你爹爹也是既尊敬又投机，何况他又是我婆婆的爹爹，长了三辈。可是我决不愿加盟神教，甚么‘千秋万载，一 统江湖’，甚么‘文成武德，泽被苍生’这些肉麻话，我听了就要作呕。”
　　【三联版】盈盈纵身跃下，令狐冲抢将上去，掷下长剑，将她搂在怀里。两人都是喜极而泣。令 狐冲轻
　　吻她面额，低声道：“刚才可真吓死我了。”
　　【新修版】盈盈纵身跃下，令狐冲抢将上去，掷下长剑，将她搂在怀里。两人都是喜极而泣。令 狐冲轻
　　吻她嘴唇，低声道：“刚才可真吓死我了。”
七.拒盟
　　【三联版】令狐冲转头向盈盈瞧了一眼，见她红晕双颊，脸露喜色，待众人笑了一会，朗声说道：“承教主美 意，邀晚辈加盟贵教，且以高位相授，但晚辈是个素来不会守规矩之人，若入了贵教，定然坏了教主大事。仔细思 量，还望教主收回成议。”任我行心中大怒，冷冷的道：“如此说来，你是决计不入神教了？”令狐冲道：“正是 ！”这两字说得斩钉截铁，绝无半分转圜余地。一时朝阳峰上，群豪尽皆失色。任我行道：“你体内积贮的异种真 气，今日已发作过了。此后多则半年，少则三月，又将发作，从此一次比一次厉害，化解之法，天下只我一人知道 。”令狐冲道：“当日在杭州梅庄，以及在少室山脚下雪地之中，教主曾言及此事。晚辈适才尝过这异种真气发作 为患的滋味，确是犹如身历万死。但大丈夫涉足江湖，生死苦乐，原也计较不了这许多。”任我行哼了一声，道： “你倒说得嘴硬。今日你恒山派都在我掌握之中，我便一个也不放你们活着下山，那也易如反掌。”令狐冲道：“ 恒山派虽然大都是女流之辈，却也无所畏惧。教主要杀，我们誓死周旋便是。”......（令狐冲）当下哈哈 一笑，向任我行抱拳行礼，又向向问天及诸长老作个四方揖，说道：“令狐冲在
　　见性峰上，恭候诸位大驾！”说着转身便走。
　　【新修版】令狐冲转头向盈盈瞧了一眼，见她红晕双颊，脸露喜色，待众人笑了一会，朗声说道：“承岳父美 意，邀小婿加盟贵教，且以高位相授，但小婿是个素来不会守规矩之人，若入了贵教，定然坏 了岳父大事。仔细思量，还望岳父收回成议。”任我行心中大怒，冷冷的道：“如此说来，你是决计不入神教了？ ”令狐冲道：“正是！”这两字说得斩钉截铁，绝无半分转圜余地。一时朝阳峰上，群豪尽皆失色。任我行道：“ 你体内积贮的异种真气，今日已发作过了。此后多则半年，少则三月，又将发作，从此一次比一次厉害，化解之法 ，天下只我一人知道。”令狐冲道：“当日在杭州梅庄，以及在少室山脚下雪地之中，岳父曾言及此事。小婿适才 尝过这异种真气发作为患的滋味，确是犹如身历万死。但大丈夫涉足江湖，生死苦乐，原也计较不了这许多。”任 我行哼了一声，道：“你倒说得嘴硬。今日你恒山派都在我掌握之中，我便一个也不放你们活着下山，那也易如反 掌。”令狐冲道：“恒山派虽然大都是女流之辈，却也无所畏惧。岳父要杀，我们誓死周旋便是。”...... （令狐冲）当下哈哈一笑，向任我行抱拳行礼，说道：“岳父大人，小婿今日对不住了！”又向向问天及诸长老作 个四方揖，说道：“令狐冲在见性峰上，恭候诸位大驾！”说着转身便走。
八.曲谐
　　【新修版】在最后新加一段话作为结尾：
　　令狐冲一生但求逍遥自在，笑傲江湖，自与盈盈结褵，虽偿了平生之愿，喜乐无已，却不免受到 娇妻温
　　柔的管束，真要逍遥自在，无所拘束，却做不到了，突然之间，心中响起了《笑傲江湖之曲》的 曲调，
　　忽想：“我奏这曲子，要高便高，要低便低，只有自己一个人奏琴，才可自由自在，然如和盈盈 合奏，
　　便须依照谱子奏曲，不能任意放纵，她高我也高，她低我也低，，这才说得上和谐和拍。佛家讲 求涅磐，
　　首先得做到无欲无求，这才能无拘无束，但人生在世，要吃饭，要穿衣要顾到别人，岂能当真无 欲无求？
　　”涅磐是‘无为境界’，我们做人是‘有为境界’，在‘有为境界’中，只要没有不当的欲求， 就不会受
　　不当的束缚，那便是逍遥自在了。”
　　评论：历经千难万险，冲盈二人的爱情终于修成正果。很多人看到旧版后记中说“盈盈的爱情得 到圆满，她
　　是心满意足的，令狐冲的自由却又被锁住了。或许，只有在仪琳的片面爱情之中，他的个性才极 少受到拘
　　束，”进而认为冲盈的结合是被动的，勉强的，甚至认为令狐冲牺牲了自己后半生的幸福与自由 而被迫与
　　盈盈结合，对于这些猜测，新修版的这段结局无疑作了最好的解释，“得偿平生之愿，喜乐无已 ”，这就
　　是令狐冲与盈盈结缡之后的感受。不仅如此，这段话还包含了金老近年来对人生的感悟与思考， 很值得大
　　家去理解和深思。

Link to the article: http://baike.baidu.com/view/174447.htm#8

[IcySnow]

This a section from the Baike Baidu entry on RYY, which contains details about the changes in the third edition pertaining to LHC and RYY's relationship. It has a side by side comparison of the relevant passages, so we could see the changes. It's in Chinese, so hopefully someone would be kind enough to translate it.
...

Wow, that's a long list. Yeah hopefully someone would translate it

I just noticed that in both the 1996 and 2001 TV adaptations, LHC says something like this to RYY: "The time together with you was the happiest days in my life." I can't find anything similar in the novel, was it added in by the scriptwriters? If so it's odd since both versions share that same line, hence I think it came from the novel itself.

As for that poem thing (by Li Shangyin), I'm not good at these kinds of stuff so I can't translate it to English myself. But, after searching around, I managed to find the original Chinese version:
鳳 女 顛 狂 成 久 別
月 娥 孀 獨 好 同 游
當 時 若 愛 韓 公 子
埋 骨 成 灰 恨 未 休

[sandy1]

Wow, that's a long list. Yeah hopefully someone would translate it

I just noticed that in both the 1996 and 2001 TV adaptations, LHC says something like this to RYY: "The time together with you was the happiest days in my life." I can't find anything similar in the novel, was it added in by the scriptwriters? If so it's odd since both versions share that same line, hence I think it came from the novel itself.

I can't find the exact quote either. My best guess is that they were paraphrasing LHC's inner monologue from Ch. 35:

"The two of them sat alongside each other inside the carriage, gazing at the lake. Linghu Chong extended his right hand and put it on the back of Yingying's left hand. Yingying's hand trembled slightly but she didn't take her hand back. Linghu Chong thought, "If only we could be like this forever and not see the bloodshed in Wulin ever again. Even if I were to become a god, I still wouldn't be as happy as right now."

As for that poem thing (by Li Shangyin), I'm not good at these kinds of stuff so I can't translate it to English myself. But, after searching around, I managed to find the original Chinese version:
鳳 女 顛 狂 成 久 別
月 娥 孀 獨 好 同 游
當 時 若 愛 韓 公 子
埋 骨 成 灰 恨 未 休

Thanks for looking it up. I can't find the English translation, but while googling, I found a commentary on a Chinese site that mentioned it being in the first edition of XAJH. It was subsequently edited out in the second edition; so the translation that you read must have been based on the first edition, and the one that I read must have been based on the second edition, which no longer has this scene. Pretty confusing. The thing is that in my country, all of these translations were unauthorized/bootlegs, so we never know where they came from.

BTW, the poster on that Chinese site speculated that the scene was taken out because JY might have felt that it was rather improbable that LPZ would be such a tolerant husband that he allowed YLS to hang such a poem in their room (the poem expressed her regret at choosing to marry LPZ over LHC).

[IcySnow]

According to some websites in my language, that poem can be understood in two different ways. The first one is YLS thought that if she had loved LHC, then she would have lived in regret for the rest of her life and the other way is like you said. Both are kinda inappropriate so JY cut it out in later versions.

BTW, do you understand this part sandy? If so can you enlighten me please

评论：历经千难万险，冲盈二人的爱情终于修成正果。很多人看到旧版后记中说“盈盈的爱情得 到圆满，她是心满意足的，令狐冲的自由却又被锁住了。或许，只有在仪琳的片面爱情之中，他的个 性才极 少受到拘束，”进而认为冲盈的结合是被动的，勉强的，甚至认为令狐冲牺牲了自己后半生的幸福与 自由 而被迫与盈盈结合，对于这些猜测，新修版的这段结局无疑作了最好的解释，“得偿平生之愿，喜乐 无已 ”，这就是令狐冲与盈盈结缡之后的感受。不仅如此，这段话还包含了金老近年来对人生的感悟与思考 ， 很值得大家去理解和深思

[sandy1]

According to some websites in my language, that poem can be understood in two different ways. The first one is YLS thought that if she had loved LHC, then she would have lived in regret for the rest of her life and the other way is like you said. Both are kinda inappropriate so JY cut it out in later versions.

BTW, do you understand this part sandy? If so can you enlighten me please

Interesting insight about the poem, Icy. So in the first edition, YLS' feeling toward LHC was actually stronger.

The Chinese text is a commentary on the extra paragraph that JY added to the end in the third edition. It says something like this:

After experiencing many difficulties and dangers, Chong and Ying's love finally reaches its right conclusion. Many people after reading the old edition's (presumably this refers to the 2nd ed.) postcript, which said that "Yingying is perfectly content, but LHC's freedom is constrained. Perhaps only Yilin's unilateral love allows him the least constraint on his nature", thought that Chong and Ying's marriage is a passive, forced affair, even to the extent that LHC had to sacrifice the rest of his life's happiness and freedom. With regard to this conjecture, the third edition's ending beyond doubt explained very well that "he achieved the hope of a lifetime and was filled with boundless joy." This is precisely how RYY and LHC feel after they are married.

[IcySnow]

Interesting insight about the poem, Icy. So in the first edition, YLS' feeling toward LHC was actually stronger.

The Chinese text is a commentary on the extra paragraph that JY added to the end in the third edition. It says something like this:

After experiencing many difficulties and dangers, Chong and Ying's love finally reaches its right conclusion. Many people after reading the old edition's (presumably this refers to the 2nd ed.) postcript, which said that "Yingying is perfectly content, but LHC's freedom is constrained. Perhaps only Yilin's unilateral love allows him the least constraint on his nature", thought that Chong and Ying's marriage is a passive, forced affair, even to the extent that LHC had to sacrifice the rest of his life's happiness and freedom. With regard to this conjecture, the third edition's ending beyond doubt explained very well that "he achieved the hope of a lifetime and was filled with boundless joy." This is precisely how RYY and LHC feel after they are married.

Thanks for the information. Well, I must say some of the readers are pretty imaginative to have thought of things like that I personally never found anything wrong with the original ending (the new one's better though).

As for the bold part, I don't really think in the 1st edition YLS's feeling was stronger since the poem's two different meanings do not show that:
1. If she had loved LHC, she wouldn't feel regretful now.
2. If she had loved LHC, she would feel regretful now.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Here is my attempt at translation, but bear in mind that poetry can contain so many allusions and metaphors that it could be totally wrong, especially the second line:

The lady phoenix's wild actions resulted in an eternal parting,
And now, widowed and alone, only the beautiful moon accompanies her.
If back then she had fallen in love for young master Han....
Even when buried bones had turned into dust, her regret [would] remain[s].

The last two lines can indeed be read two ways:

"If back then, she had chosen to love young master [Han], she would have regretted it forever."

"Alas, if only she had chosen to love young master [Han]! She will regret [not having done so] forever."

Personally, based on the context and the poem, as well as her fate, I think the second interpretation is more likely.

[sandy1]

Thanks for the information. Well, I must say some of the readers are pretty imaginative to have thought of things like that I personally never found anything wrong with the original ending (the new one's better though).

As for the bold part, I don't really think in the 1st edition YLS's feeling was stronger since the poem's two different meanings do not show that:
1. If she had loved LHC, she wouldn't feel regretful now.
2. If she had loved LHC, she would feel regretful now.

I think it's not so much the original ending that some readers had trouble with, but the postcript to the second edition, which gave the impression that LHC was shackled by his marriage to RYY. Imo, someone like LHC actually benefits from some 'gentle restraint' --- otherwise he'd just drink himself to death or something.

I tend to concur with the second interpretation of the poem that Renwoxing had so kindly translated. If this interpretation is correct, then YLS regretted not picking LHC over LPZ. So her feelings toward LHC was much stronger than what was portrayed in the subsequent editions, where she loved only LPZ until the end. I wonder if YLS's death scene in the first edition is identical to the later ones. The scene with the poem seems to be inconsistent with it.

[sandy1]

Thanks for the translation of the poem. I agree that the second interpretation seems to be the more likely one.

[IcySnow]

I think it's not so much the original ending that some readers had trouble with, but the postcript to the second edition, which gave the impression that LHC was shackled by his marriage to RYY. Imo, someone like LHC actually benefits from some 'gentle restraint' --- otherwise he'd just drink himself to death or something.

I tend to concur with the second interpretation of the poem that Renwoxing had so kindly translated. If this interpretation is correct, then YLS regretted not picking LHC over LPZ. So her feelings toward LHC was much stronger than what was portrayed in the subsequent editions, where she loved only LPZ until the end. I wonder if YLS's death scene in the first edition is identical to the later ones. The scene with the poem seems to be inconsistent with it.

Wait, postscript? What postscript?

Yeah, it is said that inconsistency was the reason why the poem was removed. If my memory serves me right, first and second edition's death scene of YLS are the same.

BTW thanks Ren Wo Xing for the translation

[sandy1]

Wait, postscript? What postscript?

Yeah, it is said that inconsistency, however we interpret the poem, was the reason why it was removed. If my memory serves me right, first and second edition's death scene of YLS are the same.

BTW thanks Ren Wo Xing for the translation

The statement that "LHC's freedom is constrained" was made in the postscript that JY wrote for the 2nd edition. This is what some readers had issues with.

After experiencing many difficulties and dangers, Chong and Ying's love finally reaches its right conclusion. Many people after reading the old edition's (presumably this refers to the 2nd ed.) postscript, which said that "Yingying is perfectly content, but LHC's freedom is constrained. Perhaps only Yilin's unilateral love allows him the least constraint on his nature", thought that Chong and Ying's marriage is a passive, forced affair, even to the extent that LHC had to sacrifice the rest of his life's happiness and freedom. With regard to this conjecture, the third edition's ending beyond doubt explained very well that "he achieved the hope of a lifetime and was filled with boundless joy." This is precisely how RYY and LHC feel after they are married.

[IcySnow]

The statement that "LHC's freedom is constrained" was made in the postscript that JY wrote for the 2nd edition. This is what some readers had issues with.

Is it available online, in English? I'd love to take a look.

[sandy1]

Is it available online, in English? I'd love to take a look.

I've never came across an English translation of it. I saw it on a Chinese site. If I can find it I'll post it here.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Translation of the large section is below. The parts that were added, I put in bold and also put between (). The parts that were removed, I put in [] and italicized.

1. Learning the Zither

But Linghu Chong still had yet to see the Granny’s face a single time. He could only hear that her voice was gentle and soft, as though she were actually a beloved, cherished daughter of a rich family, rather than a feeble, elderly old lady. He reasoned that her skill and grace with music must have come from long training since youth, which had resulted in even her voice becoming beautiful to hear, even now despite her advanced age.

(One day Linghu Chong asked, “Granny, I once heard elder Qu say that the ‘Xiao Ao Jiang Hu’ melody was derived from the ‘Guang Ling San’ melody. But the ‘Guang Ling San’ in turn came from the written story of Nie Zheng’s assassination of the King of the state of Han. In the past, I’ve heard Granny say that the ‘Xiao Ao Jiang Hu’ melody is elegant, gentle, and swift, totally at odds with Nie Zheng’s fearless valor and determination to die. Granny, please explain.” The granny said, “The gentle elegance of the melody comes from the sentiments of Nie Zheng’s elder sister. The two of them, brother and sister, shared a deep bond. After Nie Zheng died, his sister went to collect his body and spread his name to everyone, passing it down for the ages. For you to be able to sense the differences in the melody is more than sufficient evidence that you are naturally gifted when it comes to music.” After pausing for a while, her voice lowered, as she said, “If you and I can continue to be acquainted for some more days, young lord, then you will definitely be able to learn to play this ‘Xiao Ao Jiang Hu’ melody. However, this will depend on your fate.” In recent days, Linghu Chong had remained at the Green Bamboo Hut learning the zither, and had often heard the Granny’s gentle words. Thinking of her advanced age, and how he himself also had no idea how much longer he could live, he thought that he had no idea how much longer they might be destined to know each other. His heart growing sour, he said, “I hope that Granny will live long and be healthy. Your student’s life will hopefully be extended by some more time, so that I can learn more from Granny.” The Granny let out a sigh. In a gentle voice, she said, “Human life is impermanent. True destiny is hard to fathom. This ‘Xiao Ao Jiang Hu’ and the ‘Guang Ling San’ truly are different. When Nie Zheng charged forward with his assassin’s blade, the music becomes mournful and murderous. Nie Zheng assassinated the King of Han, and then was killed by the latter’s warriors. Here, the zither melody raises to the utmost highest point; if it rose any higher, the zither strings would snap. And then, the mournful melody drops down to the absolute lowest possible, to the point where even I cannot produce the sound from my flute. That represents Nie Zheng’s demise. After that, the zither and the flute have another large section of light, joyful melodies. The meaning is this: Although the hero might have died, his heroic spirit remains eternal. Flowers bloom and flowers wither, but every single year, there are heroic men and women who are ‘Xiao Ao Jiang Hu’. In the human world, heroic spirit shall not end. And thus the next segment is like blooming flowers or glittery clothes. According to the Grand Records, Nie Zheng didn’t assassinate the King of Han, but rather Xia Lei [the Prime Minister], but there is no need to investigate that too deeply.” Linghu Chong clapped his leg and said, “Granny, your explanation is wonderful. For this student to receive instruction from the likes of you, Granny, would be worth suffering ten times as much torment and wrongdoing.” The Granny no longer spoke. The sound of her zither rose again, once more the melody of floating about freely and carefree.)[/U]

2. Falling in Love

An old man said, “Five hundred li east of Fujian’s Quanzhou district, on the open sea, there is a Coiled Dragon Island. I heard that it’s almost totally unpopulated, and is extremely wild.” The Granny said, “Precisely this island. Rise up immediately and go there, to Coiled Dragon Island, and play around there. [There’s no need for you to return to the central plains for the rest of your life] (After seven or eight years, you can return to the central plains).”

3. Secret Discussions

After walking for a while, Yingying said, “My dad once said that if you refuse to enter the Sect, then when he goes to fight for the leadership position of the Sun Moon Sect, he cannot allow you to assist. But…but…” As she spoke, her face reddened. Linghu Chong said, “Although I don’t belong to the Sun Moon Sect, [it isn’t as though you and I are outsiders](you and I will live together and die together). Even if your dad wants to force me away after seeing me, I’ll thicken my face and insist on staying no matter what.”

4. Embroidering a Flower

a) Yingying said, “As long as you (and I) hold to (our) feelings without change, in the future, we will have much time for being together.”

b) Linghu Chong said, “Yingying, it’s fine for you to worry over others, but you absolutely don’t need to worry over me. Ever since I’ve been born, I’ve had the disposition of a wastrel, and I’ll never be faking or putting on an act. No matter how arrogant I might be, in front of you, I’ll always treat you like I do now, forever and ever.” Yingying let out a sigh. “That would be good.” (Following this, she let out a laugh and asked, “Like you do now. What’s that like?” Linghu Chong said with a straight face, “For a thousand autumns or ten thousand years, for ten thousand years or a thousand autumns, I, Linghu Chong, will forever be an obedient little grandson in front of Granny.” Yingying laughed beautifully. “If that’s so, then I will truly have gained the greatest benefit in the world. What nonsense about ‘a thousand gentle acts or a hundred beautiful gazes, youth and vigor. None of it is important. A thousand autumns or ten thousand years, ten thousand years or a thousand autumns, I, Ren Yingying, will also forever and ever be an obedient little girl by Great Hero Linghu’s side.)

c) Linghu Chong said, “Yes!” Reaching out with his lips, he placed a gentle kiss on her face. Yingying’s face immediately flew scarlet as she was filled with adorable shyness. [Stretching out her hand, she pushed him away.]

5. Revenge

a) In her heart, she actually felt a sweet sensation. “In the past, he definitely was very good to you, but now, [he’s much better to me](treats me even more better). You can’t blame him for this. His heart towards you didn’t change. You simply mistreated him way too much.” -- Translator's note, the meaning is the same, but the wording/grammar is better in the new version, compared to the former. This is just a grammatical change, IMHO.

b) Yingying mused to herself, “Who says there’s nobody but your mother? (There’s myself as well!)”

6. Extermination

a. Yingying said, “Exactly. Actually, daddy really likes you, and what’s more, you are the only inheritor to his Xixing Dafa.” Linghu Chong said, “(Actually) I (am filled with the utmost esteem for your father and like him a great deal. What’s more, he’s also the father of my Granny, which makes him three generations seniors to me. But I) absolutely am unwilling to enter the Sacred Sect. This crap about “A thousand autumns and ten thousand years, ruling over the martial world,” or “Learned and wise, mighty and noble, benevolent to the common man.” Whenever I hear these disgusting words, I really want to throw up.

b. Yingying leapt pass his body, but Linghu Chong rose up and tossed down his sword, ensconcing her within his embrace. The two of them were filled with both tears and the utmost joy. Linghu Chong gently kissed her [face] (lips) and said in a soft voice, “You really scared me just then!”

7. Refusing an Oath

Turning his head, Linghu Chong glanced at Yingying. Seeing her face flushed utterly red with a look of joy on her face, after everyone had finished laughing, he said in a bright voice, “I am honored by [the Sect Leader’s] (father-in-law’s) munificent suggestion for [this junior] (your son-in-law) to join his revered sect, and enjoy a high position within it with him. But [this junior] (your son-in-law) has always been ill-suited to living a life of rules. If I entered your honored sect, I’m sure that I will bring ruin to the important matters of [Sect Leader] (Father-in-law). After careful consideration, I would like to ask that [Sect Leader] (Father-in-law) take back your edict.” Ren Woxing felt great rage in his heard, and said coldly, “So what you are saying is that you have already decided against entering the Divine Sect?” Linghu Chong said, “Just so!” These two words were said unhesitatingly, like the hammering of a nail or the shattering of iron. There was no way at all to swerve around them. In that moment, the faces of all the heroes on the mountain lost their color. Ren Woxing said, “The divergent energy streams in your body have already rebelled once today. In half a year at most, three months at the least, they’ll rebel once again. Going forward, each time it will grow more and more severe. I possess the only method in the world to resolve them.” Linghu Chong said, “In the past, in Hangzhou’s Plum Mansion, or even in the snowy grounds beneath Mt. Shaoshi, you have spoken of this, [Sect Leader] (father-in-law). Since then, I have tasted many times of the pain that these rebelling energy streams can cause, and they truly do feel like the body is being subjected to ten thousand deaths. But a true man walks the martial world proudly, meeting life and death, joy and sorrow without paying too much mind to these things.” Ren Woxing let out a humph. “You certainly do talk a tough game. Today, the Hengshang Sect is within my control. If I decided to not let a single living one of you down the mountain, it would be as easy as lifting my hand.” Linghu Chong said, “Although most of the Hengshan Sect is female, they have no fear in them at all. [Sect Leader](Father-in-law), if you wish to kill, then we will simply use our lives to contend.”
….
He suddenly let out a laugh, and cupped his fists towards Ren Woxing (and said, “Most honored father-in-law, please forgive your son-in-law’s actions!”). He then saluted Xiang Wentian and each of the elders in turn. “Linghu Chong will wait at Jianxing Peak for all of you to grace us with your presence!” After speaking, he turned and walked away.

The last section, I’ve already translated.

[sandy1]

Yay! Thanks for translating the Baike article, Ren Wo Xing. I had a hard time following that part about the background of the Guang Ling San in the original.

I have a question.

”盈盈嫣然一 笑，道：“这样，我才真正占尽了天下的好处。什么千娇百媚，青春年少，全不打紧."

” Yingying laughed beautifully. “If that’s so, then I will truly have gained the greatest benefit in the world. What nonsense about ‘a thousand gentle acts or a hundred beautiful gazes, youth and vigor. None of it is important."

I don't quite understand this phrase --- my dictionary says that 千娇百媚 refers to a "bewitchingly charming woman". Is RYY referring to herself here, or is she simply paraphrasing/ playing around with a Sun Moon Holy Cult slogan? I don't remember such slogan in the earlier part of the book (please correct me if I'm wrong).