Do Ancient Tomb Sect's MA necessarily have any advantage over the other Greats' MA?

[Ken Cheng]

The Ancient Tomb Sect's martial arts were devised by the sect's founder, Lam Chiu Ying, specifically to counter the Cheun Jen Sect martial arts of Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung. Thus, although Lam never personally defeated Wong, her followers usually held the upper hand against Cheun Jen Sect acolytes (except in those rare cases when the Cheun Jen Sect member in question, such as Gok Dai Tung, was far superior in martial arts to the Ancient Tomb Sect member, such as Granny Sheun). The Ancient Tomb Sect's martial arts were the specific "black star" of the Cheun Jen Sect martial arts.

During ROCH, we did not get to see very many examples of the Ancient Tomb Sect's martial arts versus those of the other Greats'. The only such fights were brief skirmishes between Lee Mok Sau and assorted Peach Blossom Island personnel.

Do you believe that the Ancient Tomb Sect's martial arts have any significant advantage over the other Greats' martial arts such as Hong Lung 18 Palms, Dog Beating Stick Technique, Ha Mo Gung, 1 Yeung Finger Technique, etc.? Would Ancient Tomb Sect's martial arts face a better challenge from these other techniques to which the Ancient Tomb Sect's techniques are *not* the black star?

[pannonian]

From what we see of Yang Guo and Xiao Longnu, who were extremely young by wulin standards, they couldn't compete head on with even second tier masters of the clibre of Qiu Chuji. However, once they'd learned to evade rather than confront, they could escape harm for a while even against the likes of Jinlun Fawang. If an Ancient Tomb disciple has enough nous about them, they're able to punch somewhat above their weight. But they have a lower ceiling compared to Quanzhen, until they break that ceiling with the top Ancient Tomb arts. At the very top, Ancient Tomb is comparable in effectiveness with the arts of the other Greats, but with a completely different paradigm.

[东邪黄药师]

I guess it depends on whether you believe if the Greats eventually surpassed WCY.

[Ken Cheng]

I guess it depends on whether you believe if the Greats eventually surpassed WCY.

Even if they didn't, their martial arts might match up better against the Ancient Tomb's than the Cheun Jen Sect's martial arts did because, after all, the Ancient Tomb Sect's martial arts weren't specifically set up to be a black star to the techniques of East Heretic, West Poison, and North Beggar.

[pannonian]

Even if they didn't, their martial arts might match up better against the Ancient Tomb's than the Cheun Jen Sect's martial arts did because, after all, the Ancient Tomb Sect's martial arts weren't specifically set up to be a black star to the techniques of East Heretic, West Poison, and North Beggar.

At its most extreme, Ancient Tomb arts weren't specifically a counter to Quanzhen, but took a different direction altogether to the arts of the other Greats, resulting in extreme speed. Yin Zhiping got dizzy from watching Huang Yaoshi's fight against the Quanzhen masters, but he was many levels below. Qiu Chuji, who was as high a level as the sub-Greats got, couldn't distinguish Xiao Longnu's individual stances, whose hypnotic effect was an intended effect of the Ancient Tomb arts. That the hypnotic effect didn't just affect Quanzhen disciples could be seen in the feelings of love that Huang Rong felt when she watched Yang Guo and Xiao Longnu fight against GWM using Lovers' swordplay. Ancient Tomb arts didn't just counter individual Quanzhen stances, but on a higher level used extreme speed, with enchantment as a side effect.

[tape]

In his younger years Huang Yaoshi took that similar approach of speed and deception over pure power and orthodox martial arts. His palms were of many different styles and elements, and his footwork was designed to complement the craftiness in his martial arts approach.

Given how tricky these two were, it makes sense.

[tangoki]

Doesn't appear that the greats would have too much trouble with the techniques from the ancient tomb..