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Thread: Where did Yu Doi Nam rank among his brothers in MA prior to his injury?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Where did Yu Doi Nam rank among his brothers in MA prior to his injury?

    Yu Doi Nam was ranked third in terms of age/seniority among the Mo Dong 7 Heroes, but in terms of overall martial arts ability, where did he rank prior to his crippling injuries?

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    I think he should be ranked #3 in terms of martial arts. Back then, the 7 brothers were young, so there was less time for the more talented ones to widen the gap.

    I think all 7 of them were considered to be talented by wulin standards. I.E. if you pooled in all the students of Kongdong, E Mei, etc, the 7 would be among the best in terms of potential.

    But even so, Yu Dainan said he only understood about 3/10 of Taichi Fist. And ZSF estimated that the most talented one still alive, Yu Lianzhou, could only master 6/10. Numbers are from my memory of the adaptations, might be fuzzy.

    So. Sometimes seeing protagonist such as ZWJ master top level martial arts with ease, I had the impression that any hardworking fighter lucky enough to have access to 9 Yang, Taichi, etc, could master those arts.

    But seems like that's not the case, it really takes a special kind of talent to master advanced martial arts, if skilled fighters like Yu Dainan and YLZ could only understand part of Taichi, despite having decades of experience with "taichi-like" martial arts. Cotton Palms seems to work like Taichi, but just less advanced.

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    It never made sense to me how Wuji could understand more Taiji fist than his martial uncles, or more martial arts in general than anyone else.

    He's super fast and super strong, and it allows him to do movements faster and stronger, and attack from positions that people normally can't, but in terms of overall martial arts understanding, how can he actually compare to them? These people have trained and fought for decades while the whole HSDS novel lasts 2-3 years.

    He is no doubt intelligent, but I don't buy that his understanding of martial arts is superior in general. QKDNY allows him to create weaknesses where there are none due to his superior internal (which can make sense), but it doesn't make sense why he can identify and give martial arts tips to someone like Right Emissary Fan Yao, who is described to have intimate knowledge on almost every martial art in the world. Sure he can beat anyone with his current skillset and power, but do we really get the feeling that he can outperform the other fighters if his internal were reduced to Yang Xiao level? I certainly don't get that feeling.

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    I always got the impression that QKDNY allowed Wuji to see the internal energy process in a technique, which allowed him to spot the weakness in techniques. This would help learn techniques.

    QKDNY was sounded really similar to Taiji to me anyway. Redirecting energy and all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    I always got the impression that QKDNY allowed Wuji to see the internal energy process in a technique, which allowed him to spot the weakness in techniques. This would help learn techniques.
    That really seems familiar, but I don't really remember any time where he specifically does that. Of all the fights he's been in, he's pretty much just overpowered them. Perhaps it was a theory by a forum member that sounded likely.

    The closest thing to that was when he fought Ah Er, where he attacked him before his inner strength reached it's max power, but that was at the advice of Yu Dainan who told him to "attack before crossing the bridge".

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    The closest thing to that was when he fought Ah Er, where he attacked him before his inner strength reached it's max power, but that was at the advice of Yu Dainan who told him to "attack before crossing the bridge".
    Actually, although ZWJ said 'yes', he completely ignored it and waited for Ah Er to attack him with full force. He then bounced the power right back, blasting Ah Er through a wall and breaking every bone in his body.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    Actually, although ZWJ said 'yes', he completely ignored it and waited for Ah Er to attack him with full force. He then bounced the power right back, blasting Ah Er through a wall and breaking every bone in his body.
    Heh, yup, one of the rare moments when Wuji shows a bit of pride or arrogance in his martial arts and felt challenged.

    And about the QKDNY seeing weaknesses, right after he learned it they compared the eagle attacking tiger example, and it was said that his methods weren't any better than weaker fighters, he was just far stronger. So QKDNY shouldn't inherently make him be able to give martial arts advice due to seeing weaknesses since he lacked the experience to figure out what was the best move given a certain power level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    It never made sense to me how Wuji could understand more Taiji fist than his martial uncles, or more martial arts in general than anyone else.
    An analogy might be made to career paths: Wuji is a yuppie put on an accelerated path, given opportunities to become CEO in a few years (think Zuckerberg), while his uncles are just bright employees who max out at senior director level (which is a few levels below CEO).
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Right, and he meets more success than they do.

    But he should not be able to perform their specific duties better than they would, or necessarily understand things better or faster than they would. Someone like Warren Buffet (anonymously) would not be able to turn 100k into a million faster than a successful trader that is currently working in the smaller markets, but due to his enormous wealth and reputation, he will outperform anybody if he chose to do so.

    I always thought of Wuji as a 9ft guy playing basketball. He sure as hell will beat everyone and win all MVPS and championships, but it would be crazy to ask him for tips on basketball because it wouldn't be applicable to you.

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    I think it's because Wuji has been exposed to super high level stuff, that he can understand other super high level stuff faster than others.

    An example from the office is that I once worked on a project for a while. I presented it to my boss' boss' boss, and it was the first time she heard about it. A few weeks later, she presented it to a bigger audience, and to my surprise, she articulated it with additional relevance that I hadn't thought of. She was able to do so because of her broad experience and her sharp wit.

    Now, she won't know all the details that I did, but she totally gets the concept, and can no doubt do the job better with just a little learning.

    So, I think with high level MA like Taiji, understanding is the key. The Wudang heroes can only understand a fraction, while Wuji can comprehend all of it.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Zhang Wuji also has a full grounding of 9 yang, unlike even Zhang Sanfeng. Taiji is 9 yang concepts turned into an external art. Zhang Sanfeng took years to collect everything he knew about 9 yang and turn it into a single coherent art. Zhang Wuji already had the ideas down pat.

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    I guess this is just a case similar to Feng Qingyang telling Linghu Chong "Hey, don't be rigid and adapt!" and LHC gets more improvement from that single sentence than he would have with years of practice.

    Or Yang Guo realizing simplicity brings superiority and owning everyone with what seems to be a simple concept.

    None of those events make much sense to me, and are fun to read, but kind of paints the tens of thousands of people in wulin as morons.

    Edit: The LHC case is the worst for me. He had the creativity and humor to create a new sword art with Lingshan, and he's never experimented with linking together weird moves? I mean in all sports everyone trains technique until it's perfect, but when goofing around with friends or alone, I imagine SOMEONE in all of the 5 Sword Sects would have thought to not connect sword stances directly, purposely or by accident.
    Last edited by tape; 08-03-12 at 07:00 PM.

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