9 Yum and 9 Yeung: are their texts really opposites/mirror images of each other?

[Ken Cheng]

9 Yeung Jen Ging was said to have been created by an unnamed Buddhist monk friend of Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung's. The monk was attempting to create an equivalent martial arts system to the 9 Yum Jen Ging, but following an inverse path from that of the 9 Yum.

Excerpts of the 9 Yum Jen Ging were recited at various points of LOCH and ROCH; parts of the 9 Yeung Jen Ging were also recited in HSDS. Based on these excerpts, do you find that the two manuals' underlying philosophies were truly opposite? Can we do a side-by-side comparison of the relevant texts to see?

[pannonian]

9 Yeung Jen Ging was said to have been created by an unnamed Buddhist monk friend of Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung's. The monk was attempting to create an equivalent martial arts system to the 9 Yum Jen Ging, but following an inverse path from that of the 9 Yum.

Excerpts of the 9 Yum Jen Ging were recited at various points of LOCH and ROCH; parts of the 9 Yeung Jen Ging were also recited in HSDS. Based on these excerpts, do you find that the two manuals' underlying philosophies were truly opposite? Can we do a side-by-side comparison of the relevant texts to see?

There were bits and pieces of 9 yin quoted, but the philosophy behind 9 yang was more cohesively integrated into the story. Jueyuan and Yang Guo were polar opposites in their advice to Zhang Junbao, with Jueyuan telling him that to stay was to prevail, while Yang Guo was telling him to be proactive. We got a taster of what Jueyuan meant when Xiaoxiang Zi attacked him, but we get a much more detailed look in the story of Zhang Wuji. In comparison, 9 yin tended to be used as a plot device to move the plot forward with some magical martial art that did just what the plot needed.

[Ken Cheng]

Do you feel that the manner in which the 9 Yum Jen Ging was characterized in HSDS was consistent with the manner in which it was characterized in LOCH and ROCH. Granted, we don't see as much of the 9 Yum in HSDS as we did in LOCH or even ROCH, but all we have to go on for 9 Yum in HSDS is that Chow Chi Yerk used 9 Yum White Bone Claws, the same skill that Mui Chiu Fung, Chan Yeun Fung, and Yeung Hong used during LOCH.

We've definitely seen "same name, not same characteristics" martial arts in Jin Yong's canon before, so I wonder if this happened to 9 Yum Jen Ging between LOCH and HSDS.

[CFT]

I don't have the novel text to hand, but I think it in the Chapter where Jueyuan recites the 9 Yang manual on his death bed, a lot of it seemed to describe Taiji principals.

[pannonian]

The only bit of 9 yin that we saw in HSDS was 9 yin claws. The technique was unorthodox and unfamiliar, but not especially formidable against top class figters. And we get to see 9 yin claws without internal backing against 9 yang when Zhou Zhiruo struck the top of Zhao Min's head, only to meet the 9 yang that Zhang Wuji was channelling into her. That left Zhao Min with some scratches on her head, and Zhou Zhiruo with broken fingers.

[Ian Liew]

We also saw the Yellow-Dress girl use the real 9 yin claws, though, and it was far far above what Zhou Zhiruo practiced. We didn't actually get to see it against a top level opponent, though, unfortunately.