Another couple of ELOCs

[pannonian]

Two memorable characters, one named Wei Zhen and another surnamed He. Does anyone know who they are?

[Ian Liew]

Two memorable characters, one named Wei Zhen and another surnamed He. Does anyone know who they are?

The two fellas who met Xiao Feng in the hotel just prior to the Juiyuan Manor gathering? They fought with him, lost, and were shocked that he was going to attend too. Seemed like very decent chaps who just reacted the way most of wulin did.

[Ken Cheng]

The two fellas who met Xiao Feng in the hotel just prior to the Juiyuan Manor gathering? They fought with him, lost, and were shocked that he was going to attend too. Seemed like very decent chaps who just reacted the way most of wulin did.

Didn't one of these guys get thrown to the ceiling (or something like that) by Kiu Fung at Tsui Yin Manor, get stuck up there for several minutes, struggled to get free/down, finally did, only to fall on top of a sword and die (or something like that)?

I just remember one of these guys dying a death worthy of a Warner Brothers cartoon character.

[pannonian]

These two individuals are very well characterised and, for me, are among my favourite characters in their novel. However, their names are only mentioned once each and not even completely. One was surnamed He, and a joke is made about that, while the other is named Wei Zhen, but it's not clear if Wei Zhen is the full name. As far as I know, both characters survive beyond the end of the novel, and become friends of the protagonist. The protagonist has lots and lots of friends, and is the most revered figure in wulin by the end of the novel. The protagonist survives beyond the end of the novel.

[pannonian]

Time to give the answer. They were the Huashan Er Lao, the two elders who fought against Zhang Wuji on Brightness Peak. The tall one, surnamed He, teased Ban Shuxian by calling on Madame He to join his fight. After the Huashan and Kunlun elders crashed into each other in a heap and admitted defeat, the tall one paid his respects to Zhang Wuji and introduced his (short) martial brother as "Wei Zhen..." before being interrupted by him.

[Doc Kwok]

After the Huashan and Kunlun elders crashed into each other in a heap and admitted defeat, the tall one paid his respects to Zhang Wuji and introduced his (short) martial brother as "Wei Zhen..." before being interrupted by him.

'Wei Zhen' means '(one whose) might shakes', and the phrasing makes it clear that it the beginning of a title, not a name. We don't know the name of the short one at all. He interrupted because they had just been publicly defeated by Zhang Wuji twice in-a-row, in a rather humiliating fashion, in two blatantly stacked fights - claiming to be someone whose might shakes whatever after that would just be too embarrassing.

[pannonian]

'Wei Zhen' means '(one whose) might shakes', and the phrasing makes it clear that it the beginning of a title, not a name. We don't know the name of the short one at all. He interrupted because they had just been publicly defeated by Zhang Wuji twice in-a-row, in a rather humiliating fashion, in two blatantly stacked fights - claiming to be someone whose might shakes whatever after that would just be too embarrassing.

Ah, that makes sense. I was looking up the Ming Cult's particulars in those chapters, and only just noticed the only mention of any name or title for those two characters that are otherwise so well detailed.

[tape]

Speaking of HSDS, I watched a couple episodes of HSDS 2000 and man the beginning episodes are really terrible compared to the '86 ones. Damian Lau might be a fine actor, but his age and perhaps the script doesn't let him hold a candle to the suave *dreamy eyes* Simon Yam. When Damian committed suicide, I was thinking, meh Michelle Yim could do better anyways. When Simon Yam committed suicide I was definitely like "ho, you better go too". The rest of the Wudang 7 brothers plus Zhang Sanfeng are also worlds better. Let's not even try to compare the two Xie Xuns.

[Ian Liew]

I remember reading a comic where Kunlun disciple Xihuazi saved Zhang Wuji by punching one of the Huashan elders instead of Wuji when there was an opening, because he was furious that the Huashan Elders tried to kill him deliberately, his teachers Mr and Mrs He had indirectly given their permission for them to do so, and Wuji (who was supposed to be the enemy using him as a human shield) was the only one trying to protect him. For a little kelefe he summoned up incredible pluck and courage to scold his Kunlun and Huashan elders, and say some nice words about Wuji in public. Seems that the Six Orthodox Sects were not completely evil, just extremely stubborn, misguided and greedy - they, at the very least, understood shame.

[pannonian]

I remember reading a comic where Kunlun disciple Xihuazi saved Zhang Wuji by punching one of the Huashan elders instead of Wuji when there was an opening, because he was furious that the Huashan Elders tried to kill him deliberately, his teachers Mr and Mrs He had indirectly given their permission for them to do so, and Wuji (who was supposed to be the enemy using him as a human shield) was the only one trying to protect him. For a little kelefe he summoned up incredible pluck and courage to scold his Kunlun and Huashan elders, and say some nice words about Wuji in public. Seems that the Six Orthodox Sects were not completely evil, just extremely stubborn, misguided and greedy - they, at the very least, understood shame.

From Chapter 21 - Solving problems, resolving disputes and combating the 6 Forces.

Thinking quickly,
Zhang WuJi immediately sneaked behind Xi HuaZi, forcing Ban ShuXian and
He TaiChong to withdraw their next attacks. Since he couldn’t figure out
a way to counter this sword formation, he could only spin around Xi
HuaZi, using him as a shield against oncoming attacks.
...
Laughter came from the
viewers, as they see Xi HuaZi only could stare helplessly in the middle
of the battle, with swords and sabers coming at him. Ban ShuXian
especially felt angry, as many chances of killing Zhang WuJi were wasted
because of Xi HuaZi. Then the tall old man said, “Mrs. He, if you won’t
kill him, I will.” Ban ShuXian snickered, “I can’t exactly control you,
can I?” The tall old man then immediately aimed his saber at Xi HuaZi.
Zhang WuJi thought, “Oh no. If he dies, then I would no longer have a
shield. Plus, how can I let someone die for me?” So he waved his arm,
and the wind carried by his sleeves guided the tall old man’s saber
away. At the same time, the short old man came from the back, his saber
moving silently. Zhang WuJi immediately got out of the way, but then
found that his Saber is still continuing in the same direction. So he
turned back and shot out his palms towards the short old man, prompting
him to stop the attack. Xi HuaZia, grateful that Zhang WuJi saved his
life twice, thought, “If I live past today, I’ll make sure to get back
at these two old men.” When He TaiChong and Ban ShuXian saw Zhang WuJi
protecting their student, their thoughts weren’t gratitude, but rather
annoyance that Xi HuaZi is still around. Hence, their attacks became
even more aggressive. Although it’s nearly impossible for them to aim
for Zhang WuJi in this situation, they can aim for Xi HuaZi instead, and
use him as bait to make Zhang WuJi help out. Then they can take the
opportunity to attack Zhang WuJi straight on. When E Mei, Wu Dang, and
Shaolin saw their methods, they can only shake their heads and feeling
ashamed.

As the battle went on, Zhang WuJi thought, “If I can’t beat them, then
it’s no big deal for me to die. But why drag down the innocent with me?”
He pushed back the tall old man’s attack and then used his branch to
unseal Xi HuaZi’s pressure point. The short old man came from behind
aiming for Xi HuaZi, but didn’t realize that his pressure point has been
unsealed. Suddenly, he felt a fist hitting his nose, and blood poured
out. Although the short old man’s kung fu is much better than Xi
HuaZi’s, this blow came unexpectedly. So he couldn’t dodge. When the
others saw this, they all started to laugh loudly. Ban ShuXian
suppressed a laugh of her own, and ordered, “Xi HuaZi, get out of here!”
Xi HuaZi said, “Yes. But I still owe that tall old man a punch.” But as
he tried to attack the tall old man, the short old man immediately
delivered a palm blow to his chest, prompting him to retreat, blood came
out of his mouth. He TaiChong then came over, grabbed the back of his
robe, and threw him back out into the crowd.

[Ian Liew]

My goodness - even He Taichong and his wife attacked Xihuazi? Granted, they probably did it to distract Zhang Wuji rather than actually harm their student, but it seems that they would have been equally happy had Xihuazi been killed as long as they could hit Wuji.

[Doc Kwok]

Although it’s nearly impossible for them to aim
for Zhang WuJi in this situation, they can aim for Xi HuaZi instead, and
use him as bait to make Zhang WuJi help out. Then they can take the
opportunity to attack Zhang WuJi straight on.

That translation is inaccurate.

高矮二老也是出刀加快，均知極不容易傷到張無忌，但如攻擊西華子而引他來救，便可令他身法中現出破綻，因此 反賓為主，兩柄鋼刀倒是往西華子身上招呼的為多。

The tall and short elders also sped up their sabre attacks, both knowing it was extremely difficult to injure Zhang Wuji, but if they attacked Xihuazi to make him come to the rescue, then they could make him reveal openings in his body structure, therefore they switched from being the guest to the host, with the two steel sabres more often than not being aimed at Xihuazi's body.