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Thread: DGSD Chapter 41. Fight at Shaolin.

  1. #41
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Actually, I estimated his internal energy from the descriptions (at that particular age) of Mighty Dragon Without Regrets. QF was able to propagate his force from 150 feet. GJ propagated his force merely from a distance. If you take into account that this was in a courtyard that cannot be more than 50 feet wide in any direction, GJ's feat falls short of QF's. Hence I would say that he is not as powerful as QF at this age. I also said that GJ could be a match in the future because of 9 Yin so that his internal energy will in fact increase very rapidly.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Yang Guo's Avatar
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    Well it's not like Guo Jing could've jumped 100 feet further away just to do a long distance blast... why bothre right? For all we know, he could've been able to do so

  3. #43
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    True, which is why you also take into account of how the targets felt. The effect of QF's attack was both more profound as well as coming from a longer distance.

  4. #44
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    I don't know how you come to the above conclusion (btw Have you read both novels? Or do you just look at TV adaptations?). The episode you mentioned: the GJ - OYF clash was at the beginning of ROCH, at that time GJ was about 35 years old, about the same age as XF in DGSD. As YG said, GJ also benefitted immensely from JYSG. So at that time, GJ would be about as powerful as XF (in matters of inner energy).

    Your estimate that GJ at the end of ROCH (then he would be 50 years of age - about 20 years from then) would be close in matters of inner energy to the 30 year old XF IMHO is totally wrong. GJ would be much better then.
    I don't think GJ was even close to QF at that time. You can't say he is stronger just because of 9 yin and his age when compare different eras in JY's universe. The three brother of DGSD is pretty much matchless compare to the later eras. No one of Shaolin in DGSD came close of being QF's match (not counting Sweeper Monk) and they were practicing the same internal energy much longer. The people in there are made like super humans compare to the Conder Trilogy.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  5. #45
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    Well it's not like Guo Jing could've jumped 100 feet further away just to do a long distance blast... why bothre right? For all we know, he could've been able to do so
    Anyone know how high a person can jump in the Condor Trilogy or DGSD?
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  6. #46
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    In the condor trilogy, the Shaolin monks thought it would take the highest possible skills to leap 30 feet up unencumbered. (read Athena's translation).

    I don't recall exact evidence of vertical height leapt in DGSD, but it was stated that when Xu Zhu jumped over the palace wall of the Xixia palace, he _overjumped_ by nearly 10 feet. It wouldn't be too far off to assume that the palace defensive wall would be over 20 feet?

    And the important point to note was that at that time, Xu Zhu was carrying both Tong Lao and LQS. And both were encased in solid ice. So he made that leap while carrying the weight of at least 3 persons (ice is heavy stuff).

  7. #47
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    I don't know too much about physics, but will carring 3 times his weight make him jump three times lower? Does that mean that he can normally jump 90 feet or so? I think people like GJ and the Greats should be able to jump up to 40 or maybe 50 feet since they are much more powerful.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  8. #48
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    I think people like GJ and the Greats should be able to jump up to 40 or maybe 50 feet since they are much more powerful.
    Was comparing the 3 Saint guy.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  9. #49
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Let's see, how far you can move up from jumping is determined by kinetic energy (not momentum) as it transforms into potential energy.

    0.5mv^2 is the formula. Since m is only modified by a constant multiplier, tripling the weight would increase your kinetic energy by 3 times meaning you will only have 1/3 of the kinetic energy required to move the same distance since it is a linear relationship when you're close to the surface of the earth. Therefore tripling your weight would in fact reduce your height to 1/3.

  10. #50
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    Let's see, how far you can move up from jumping is determined by kinetic energy (not momentum) as it transforms into potential energy.

    0.5mv^2 is the formula. Since m is only modified by a constant multiplier, tripling the weight would increase your kinetic energy by 3 times meaning you will only have 1/3 of the kinetic energy required to move the same distance since it is a linear relationship when you're close to the surface of the earth. Therefore tripling your weight would in fact reduce your height to 1/3.
    I have no Idea what you are talking about, but I guess it makes sense. So the top fighters of DGSD like the three brothers can jump up about 90 feet? Their martial arts should be much better than the Condor Trilogy.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  11. #51
    Senior Member Mojo Jojo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ChronoReverse
    Let's see, how far you can move up from jumping is determined by kinetic energy (not momentum) as it transforms into potential energy.

    0.5mv^2 is the formula. Since m is only modified by a constant multiplier, tripling the weight would increase your kinetic energy by 3 times meaning you will only have 1/3 of the kinetic energy required to move the same distance since it is a linear relationship when you're close to the surface of the earth. Therefore tripling your weight would in fact reduce your height to 1/3.
    I don't think physics has a lot to do with the situation. With internal energy, great fighters probably somehow lower their mass or have limited levitation or telekinesis.

  12. #52
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    I don't think levitation or telekinesis are involved. The people in Wuxia has super human strength.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  13. #53
    Senior Member TigerWong's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mojo Jojo
    I don't think physics has a lot to do with the situation. With internal energy, great fighters probably somehow lower their mass or have limited levitation or telekinesis.
    In one GL story, the hero dropped from a high wall and actually decelerated in mid-air before floating down to the ground.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Mojo Jojo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by superboy
    I don't think levitation or telekinesis are involved. The people in Wuxia has super human strength.
    It's not just superhuman strength. XLN was able to wrap her belt around some flowers and use it to lift herself in the air to escape from GWM. Flowers do not normally have the strength to support the weight of a 50 kg girl (just guessing on her weight). Obviously, some sort of supernatural power was at work. I'm sure people who have read JY more than me could find more examples.

  15. #55
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    You might not be too familiar with Wuxia. They use an inner energy call chi during battle. It is the reason that they had such strength since they are inhanced by chi. Making materials more durable is one of chi's abilities. I'm not sure, but I don't think it was never able to make anything lighter. The body of the user, not sure, but certainly not things that are holded by the person.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  16. #56
    Senior Member TigerWong's Avatar
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    From Moinlleon's translation of LXF:

    He smiled and said: "I have brought your silver hooks here for you; here, take it!"

    When he said "it", he gently pushed his hand forward and the pair of hooks slowly began to fly towards Soul Hooker, ridiculously slow, as if there was a pair of invisible hands underneath them.

  17. #57
    Senior Member Mojo Jojo's Avatar
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    From Meh's translation of HSDS:

    Zhang CuiShan said, “I don’t want to fight you, just compete in writing some words.” As he spoke he walked over to a high, mountain, with a smooth cliff. Zhang CuiShan took a deep breath, and jumped high into the air. His Wu Dang’s lightness kung fu absorbed the best of each other sects. At this moment of life and death, he obviously used it to its full potential. As his body rose several meters into the air, Zhang CuiShan used the advanced ‘Cloud Stairs’, lightly tapped the side of the mountain, and shot up several more meters. The judge’s brush on his right hand swiftly began to make strokes upon the stone surface. Quickly, the word ‘martial’ appeared. After he finished, he began to drop down.
    It certainly appears as if Zhang CuiShan lowered the weight of his body. If he was dependent on strength, it would have been more than just a light tap on the mountain to go further in the air.

  18. #58
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Actually there is an explanation for some of the effects we see. The one most often used is that chi is what they used to bring about all the effects we see.

    Stuff like slowing down in the air or changing directions in the air are definitely chi base but sometimes can be simple things like being able to expel your breath using chi to redirect yourself.

    As for Zhang Cui San's lightness kungfu, it's pretty established that chi is what allows lightness kungfu to work (as evidenced when Hui Juk fell immediately when he opened his mouth XD ). Also, lightness kungfu has also a physical technique where you can do a lot using less force. Obviously this is outside the realm of physics, but even in wuxia fiction there is a degree of correspondence to physics. And in the case of jumping weight always hinders lightness kungfu, while physical strength and chi makes your lightness kungfu better.

  19. #59
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    XZ can still jump 30 feet with twice his weigth and I don't think that chi can make other things lighter other than maybe yourself.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  20. #60
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Phew, its a long chapter but one more installment and I should be done with chapter 41. Hope you guys like it.

    ****


    There remained a small handful of Xing Su members who were still shamelessly shouting lines like : "You the one named Qiao, you have been hit by our Xing Su Immortal's divine technique, in less then 10 days your body will rot and turn into bloody pus!" "The Xing Su Immortal has allowed you 3 free strokes since you are his junior!" "The high and noble stature of the Xing Su Immortal is way above you, why should be lower himself to fight
    you?" "You had better come to your senses and kneel to apologise to the Xing Su Immortal, or you will die a terrible death!" However, the voices were no longer as loud as before and didn't carry the previous arrogant air.

    You Tan Zhi was initially horrified to see that Xiao Feng had arrived, yet was immensely relieved when he safely rescued Ah Zi but seeing how intimate Ah Zi was with Xiao Feng now caused him unbearable jealousy. Stepping forward, he quickly asked : "Quick...quick let Lady Ah Zi down!" Xiao Feng placed Ah Zi on her feet and asked : "And who are you?" You Tan Zhi was totally intimidated by hisheroic and piercing aura and could only
    chatter and mumble : "I am....I am the Beggar Sect Chief.....Chief Zhuang....that Chief Zhuang."

    Someone within the Beggar Sect ranks immediately shouted : "You have already joined the Xing Su Sect, how can you still be the Chief of Beggar Sect?"

    Xiao Feng angrily demanded : "Why did you blind Lady Ah Zi's eyes?" Frightened by Xiao Feng, You Tan Zhi retreated 2 steps and stammered : "No...no it wasn't me....it really wasn't me...." Ah Zi spoke up and said : "Brother-in-law, my eyes were blinded by that old bandit Ding Chun Qiu, quick! Dig out both his eyes and take revenge for me!"

    Xiao Feng could not quite comprehend what exactly was going on and swept his eyes through the crowd. Studying the assembled throng, he spotted Duan Zheng Chun and Ruan Xing Zhu. Feeling a pang of pain as well as relief he shouted out : "Prince Duan of Dali, your beloved daughter is here,
    please take good care and discipline her properly!" Leading Ah Zi by her hand, he gently pushed her into Duan Zheng Chun's arms. By this time, Ruan Xing Zhu had already thoroughly wet her sleeves with tears and could only hug Ah Zi while crying : "My good daughter! What...what happened to your eyes?"

    The sudden appearance of Xiao Feng had Duan Yu jumping for joy, he had wanted to rush out in greeting but Xiao Feng's immediate attack on Ding Chun Qiu, rescue of Ah Zi, questioning of You Tan Zhi and other acts had left no opening for him. Seeing how Ruan Xing Zhu was embracing Ah Zi while sobbing loudly, he wondered to himself : "Why does Big Brother Xiao claim that this blind girl is my father's precious daughter?" However, he knew
    that his father was a philanderer and immediately understood the obvious. Rushing forward he shouted : "Brother! How have you been! You had your junior brother here worried sick!"

    Although Xiao Feng had only met Duan Yu for a brief period while drinking with him at Wuxi inn, they shared a deep comradeship and brotherly feelings. Grasping Duan Yu's hands he greeted : "Brother, a lot has happened and would be hard to explain, but thanks to your good fortune I am still alive and well."

    Their reunion was suddenly interrupted by a loud shouting : "The one named Qiao, you killed my elder brother and I will have my revenge today!" Followed by yet another shout of : "This Khitan dog Qiao Feng deserves to be executed! We must not let him leave Shao Shi mountain alive!" Suddenly
    everyone in the crowd was yelling and shouting threats, some cursing Xiao Feng for killing a son, yet others blamed him for killing a father.

    At Ju Xian Manor, Xiao Feng had either killed or injured a great multitude of people in the martial art circles. Of the assembled pugilists on Shao Shi mountain, many had fellow disciples, close friends or relatives who were hurt or slain by Xiao Feng. Although they were all frightened of Xiao Feng's power, the memories of kin and friends fueled their anger and they could not stop hurling abuse. As each person added his own shouts of abuse, the
    yelling steadily got louder. The crowd saw that Xiao Feng had only brought 18 riders with him and Beggar Sect carried animosity towards him, furthermore by defeating Ding Chun Qiu he surely had become an enemy of the Xing Su Sect too. In a fight, even if Beggar Sect stayed neutral, the assembled pugilists plus the Shaolin monks and the Xing Su members could surely outnumber the 19 Khitans vastly. Even if Xiao Feng possessed divine
    abilities he would be unable to escape. Feeling secure, the crowd only started shouting and scolding louder. The scoldings and shouts only got more and more vulgar as many brandished their swords and sabres as they prepared to rush forward together and chop Xiao Feng to pieces.

    When Xiao Feng rode south with his 18 riders, he only planned on saving Ah Zi and never expected to run into a gathering of all his enemies. Having roamed the martial circles since young, Xiao Feng was well acquainted with many of the pugilists gathered here. He knew that the majority of them were heroic and righteous people who only became his enemy due to his Khitan birth and the misunderstandings caused by someone who framed
    him. The fight at Ju Xian Manor was not something he had wanted and if another fight broke out today, many pugilists will die and even if he managed to escape the 18 riders will not escape injury and death. As he tried to think of a plan he thought that since Ah Zi had been rescued he should try to leave rather then waste time tangling with these people. Turning to Duan Yu, he said : "Brother, the situation is fierce and dangerous, I have no
    time to talk so it is best that you retreat and distance yourself. The mountains are tall and the rivers long, we shall surely meet again." In his mind, he wanted Duan Yu to distance himself so that in his escape, no one would hurt Duan Yu in the process.

    Seeing how the crowd of over a thousand fighters all faced his sworn brother with killing intent, Duan Yu couldn't help but feel his heroic instincts aroused so he replied loudly : "Big Brother, remember when we swore brotherhood we promised to share both good fortune and difficulties together? If we cannot be born on the same day, we shall die on the same day. Now that Big brother is facing danger, how can I abandon you?" Duan Yu had
    faced many dangers in the past but each time he had escaped or ran away, now hot blood was flowing through him and a sense of heroism was mounting inside him so he decided that he would die
    together with Xiao Feng to fulfil his promise of sworn brotherhood.

    No one in the crowd knew who Duan Yu was. Although he had loudly proclaimed himself as Xiao Feng's sworn brother and vowed to fight against them, they only saw that he was a young and weak looking scholar, so nobody gave him much regard and the shouting only got fiercer. (**thousand to one odds and no one dares to attack yet, shows how scared they are of Xiao Feng huh?**)

    Xiao Feng told Duan Yu : "Brother, I appreciate your good intentions but it isn't so easy for them to kill me. You had better retreat or I will be distracted by having to protect you and unable to fight properly." Duan Yu replied : "You don't have to protect me, they have no grudges towards me so why would they kill me?" Xiao Feng bitterly thought to himself : "If only that were true, there would be no strife and conflict in the world?"

    Duan Zheng Chun quietly instructed Fan Hua, Hua He Gen and Ba Tian Shi : "This hero Xiao has saved my life before, should there be a fight later we will rush in and save him. " "Yes." Fan Hua replied as he glanced at the crowd of over a thousand, : "The enemy is many, does my Lord have a plan?"
    Duan Zheng Chun shoke his head and said : "A gentleman distinguishes between right and wrong, just do our best and repay him with our lives if need be." The Dali fighters replied in unison : "As you command!"

    The Gusu Murong members were also discussing amongst themselves at this moment. Gong Ye Gan having matched palm and drinking ability with Xiao Feng back at Wuxi, was ready to
    assist Xiao Feng. Bao Bu Tong and Feng Bo Er were also great admirers of Xiao Feng and were willing to step foward and lend him their fists. But Murong Fu held them back, saying : "Brothers, our primary mission is to restore the dynasty, how can we offend the entire world by aiding Xiao Feng?" Deng Bai Chuan asked : "What does Master require of us?"

    Murong Fu said : "We must win the hearts and minds of these heroes." Loudly proclaiming : "Brother Xiao, you are a great Khitan hero and view us heroes of the Central Plains as insignificant. The lowly Murong Fu wishes to witness your mighty techniques today. If I die under your palm, I would
    at least have done my bit for the Central Plains and die in honour." By using these words, he had put himself into a position of close comradeship with all the pugilists of the Central Plains regardless of the outcome of this fight.

    The assembled heroes were all united in the desire to slay Xiao Feng, but even though they knew that their numbers would surely overwhelm him in the end, the first 10 or so attackers would surely be slain. Everyone had heard of the saying "North Qiao Feng, South Murong" so when Murong Fu proclaimed that he would ally with them, the crowd immediately cheered loudly. They knew that even if Murong Fu was defeated, he would have
    caused Qiao Feng to use up much of his strength and energy.

    Xiao Feng was shocked when Murong Fu stepped up to challenge him. Folding his hands in salute he said : "I have long heard of your famous reputation, today I will be able to witness your supreme techniques and open my eyes."

    Duan Yu angrily retorted : "Brother Murong, this is most unbecoming. My big brother is not your enemy, so why would you take advantage of the situation now? In fact, when you were wrongfully accused in the past, my big brother tried to defend you and clear your name." Murong Fu only laughed coldly and said : "If brother Duan's sense of heroism is insulted, you can step forward and fight too." Murong Fu had long been irritated
    by Duan Yu's pestering of Wang Yu Yan and took this opportunity to vent his anger but Duan Yu only replied : "What abilities do I have to face you in a fight? I am only trying to speak a few words of fairness."

    Having been forced into retreat by Xiao Feng, Ding Chun Qiu felt very humiliated and took this opportunity to step forward laughing : "The one named Xiao, I conceded 3 strokes to you as you are my junior but don't expect me to concede the fourth stroke."

    You Tan Zhi also stepped forward and said : "I thank you for saving Lady Ah Zi, but for my fathers murder, I cannot live under the same sky as you. Lets settle the score today."

    Reverend Xuan Sheng quietly gave orders : "Use the Great Luo Han Formation to seal all the mountain exits. This evil bandit has caused the death of brother Xuan Ku and we will not let him leave Shao Shi mountain alive!"

    Xiao Feng saw that he had been surrounded by 3 highly skilled fighters and the Shaolin monks were all over the mountainside, looking totally disorganised but actually formed up in a potent fighting formation. This situation was many times more dire then back at Ju Xian Manor. Suddenly he heard the dying cries of several horses and saw that the 19 Khitan steeds were rolling on the ground and foaming at the mouths.

    The 18 Khitan riders shouted in fury and in an instant had slain 8 Xing Su members while numerous others had scurried away. What actually happened was that while Ding Chun Qiu was challenging Xiao Feng, he had instructed his followers to poison the horses so that Xiao Feng would not be able to escape using those powerful steeds.

    Xiao Feng saw his own steed stare pitifully at him as it lay dying. As he stared into the animal's dying gaze, he thought about how he had rode for thousands of miles south with this horse over many days and was very attached to it. Seeing how it was viciously poisoned in such a despicable manner, his blood boiled and his rage was furiously aroused (**I love it when Xiao Feng gets mad!! **). Shouting loudy he yelled : "Master Murong, Chief Zhuang, Old Freak Ding, you can all face me together, Xiao Feng is not afraid!" He hated the evil ways of the Xing Su Sect, so with the loud 'Hu!" of a palm strike, he charged fiercely at Ding Chun Qiu.

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