Is Lin Ping Zhi the most tragic character in Jin Yong novel?

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

I agree that being a man is more than ability to procreate and being a woman is more than the ability to breed children. However, If you lose your manhood, you are no longer a man. Regarding Sima Qian, if he can be like 99.9%+ of other Chinese and kept quiet about Li Ling affair, he would not face such tragedy. In life, sometimes to have to take a step back in order to have a great plain and sky for you to enjoy.

To quote Captain Picard, 'There comes a time when men of good conscience cannot stand idly by and follow orders'. Watching an innocent be punished for a crime they didn't commit is definitely one of those times. If people like Gandhi & King had taken a step back, then this world would have been a much less noble place. (guess there is more GJ in me than I thought)

Sometimes you have to do what you have to do to protect your family. I don't think their any thing wrong for Lin Yuantu to teach his family all those great martial arts to defend themselves from powerful enemies. Again to defend themselves, not for going after other innocent people. I don't think Shaolin would go after them just for being know the martial arts.

We cannot apply modern morals to Ancient times. Remember ZSF was nearly crippled when it was discovered that he had learnt Shaolin arts without permission and he had used the skills to defend them. There is no way Shaolin would have tolerated an entire family using their arts.

[tape]

I wander what JY was thinking when he created the character of Lin Pingzhi. He is quite a tragic hero until he killed Yue Lingshan, which completely changes his character. (Not that Yue Lingshan was really very likable). Besides being a bit more cruel than most protagonists would be when he ultimately got his revenge on Yu Canghai, all he did was persevere and try to do what he could to survive. He was introduced as somewhat dislikeable (solely for being a rich young master, to be honest) but then he showed guts and didn't do anything disagreeable for the rest of the story (unless you count Yue Lingshan naturally falling for him). His arrogance disappeared and all he wanted to do was improve himself to reach his goal. He reminds me of Song Qingshu in that he would have been a great fellow if one or two super improbable things hadn't happened, he'd be okay. [In the case of Song Qingshu, the appearance of the strongest person in the past 100 years who happens to be his age, who happens to lead the fight against the government and has claims to the throne, and happens to have a relationship with his lifelong sweetheart ]

I'm not really a fan of characters like these where for all intents and purposes they are and should be fine people, but the protagonist and plot requires them to be bad. It's better when the author attempts to make it a psychological or character analysis, but characters like Lin feel like it emphasizes the point of "yeah life sometimes sucks, but never for the protagonist".

[Ace High]

This is probably true. I doubt Lin Yuantu didn't know other great martial art other than Bixie. He should have taught all the great martial art that he know to his descendants so they can defend themselves. Given his status in wulin, I suspect he knew lot of great martial arts including Yit Jinjing.

The are rules and regulations. Just because you learned it, it does not give you permission to teach it to anybody, even though its your family members.

For an example, Abbot of Shaolin Fang Zheng couldn’t teach Ling Hu Chong Yi Jin Jing without making him a Shaolin disciple first. Another example would be Huang Yao Shi’s student, Lu Cheng Feng who didn’t teach any Peach Blossom Island’s martial arts to his own son, Lu Guan Ying. Only after he get permission from Huang did Lu Cheng Feng taught his son.

Sometimes you have to do what you have to do to protect your family. I don't think their any thing wrong for Lin Yuantu to teach his family all those great martial arts to defend themselves from powerful enemies. Again to defend themselves, not for going after other innocent people. I don't think Shaolin would go after them just for being know the martial arts.

Then the Lin Family would be known as thieves. Not a good way to establish your reputation in the escort business.

If this is the case, I wonder how they can make all the wealth. I thought they are very rich compare to other sects.

Because they are businessmen with acute senses. They have branches in 10 out of 13 provinces in China. Lin Zhen Nan’s management skills were better than his predecessors. From a mere 4 intial provinces of Fujian to Guangdong in the south, and north to Zhejiang and Jiangsu, he managed to expand the escort business to six more provinces; Shandong, Hebei, Hunan, Hubei, Jiangxi and Guangxi.

[Trien Chieu]

The are rules and regulations. Just because you learned it, it does not give you permission to teach it to anybody, even though its your family members.

For an example, Abbot of Shaolin Fang Sheng couldn’t teach Ling Hu Chong Yi Jin Jing without making him a Shaolin disciple first. Another example would be Huang Yao Shi’s student, Lu Cheng Feng who didn’t teach any Peach Blossom Island’s martial arts to his own son, Lu Guan Ying. Only after he get permission from Huang did Lu Cheng Feng taught his son.

Then the Lin Family would be known as thieves. Not a good way to establish your reputation in the escort business.

Perhaps Lin Yuantu should made a deal with Shaolin. He would teach his descendants all the great martial arts to defend themselves. In return, he would donate portion of the revenue from the escort business to Shaolin.

Because they are businessmen with acute senses. They have branches in 10 out of 13 provinces in China. Lin Zhen Nan’s management skills were better than his predecessors. From a mere 4 intial provinces of Fujian to Guangdong in the south, and north to Zhejiang and Jiangsu, he managed to expand the escort business to six more provinces; Shandong, Hebei, Hunan, Hubei, Jiangxi and Guangxi.

10 out of 13? According to wikipedia, Ming China had 15 provinces. Anyway, Lin Zhen Nan is a great businessman. Too bad that his martial art is crappy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_China

[Ace High]

Perhaps Lin Yuantu should made a deal with Shaolin. He would teach his descendants all the great martial arts to defend themselves. In return, he would donate portion of the revenue from the escort business to Shaolin.

It doesn’t work that way. If Shaolin could make such a deal, there was no need for Abbot Fang Zheng to try to make Ling Hu Chong as his disciple first before teaching him Yi Jin Jing. Ren Ying Ying could have paid Shaolin any sum it demanded easily and without much hassle. Zhang San Feng also wouldn’t in the risk of being crippled by the monks he just defended for learning Shaolin martial arts without approval.

10 out of 13? According to wikipedia, Ming China had 15 provinces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_China

Actually its 13 provinces (sheng 省) and 2 capitals (jing 亰).

The 13 provinces were Fujian (福建), Guangdong (广东), Guangxi (广西), Guizhou (贵州), Henan (河南), Huguang (湖广), Jiangxi (江西), Shaanxi (陝西), Shandong (山东), Shanxi (山西), Sichuan (四川), Yunnan (云南), Zhejiang (浙江);

The 2 capitals are Northern Zhili (Beijing) & Southern Zhili (Nanjing).

The name Zhili (直隸) means “directly ruled” and indicates regions directly ruled by the Imperial Court. Zhili was first constituted during the Ming Dynasty when the capital of China was located at Nanjing along the Yangtze River. In 1403, the Ming Yongle Emperor relocated the capital to Beiping, which was subsequently renamed Beijing (literally, “Northern capital”). The region known as Northern Zhili was composed of parts of the modern provinces of Hebei, Henan, Shandong, and the administrative districts of Beijing and Tianjin. Conversely there was a region located around the “reserve capital” Nanjing known as Southern Zhili that included parts of what are today the provinces of Jiangsu, Anhui, and the administrative district of Shanghai.

Anyway, Lin Zhen Nan is a great businessman. Too bad that his martial art is crappy.

That is an understatement. Head Priest of Wudang Chong Xu once said Lin Zhen Nan's martial arts were very poor like a 3 year-old's.

[Trien Chieu]

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[Trien Chieu]

To quote Captain Picard, 'There comes a time when men of good conscience cannot stand idly by and follow orders'. Watching an innocent be punished for a crime they didn't commit is definitely one of those times. If people like Gandhi & King had taken a step back, then this world would have been a much less noble place. (guess there is more GJ in me than I thought)

In modern time in countries like US/Canada, YES. Back in the old days, hell no...

[tape]

We get it, you can watch all your family and friends get tortured and killed, and you can live peacefully with the people responsible for it (as far as he knew, Yue Buqun was part of the big scheme).

Lin Pingzhi wasn't quite the man you are, so he decided to take a different route. What a dummy.

[Trien Chieu]

We get it, you can watch all your family and friends get tortured and killed, and you can live peacefully with the people responsible for it (as far as he knew, Yue Buqun was part of the big scheme).

Lin Pingzhi wasn't quite the man you are, so he decided to take a different route. What a dummy.

There are thousand of ways to revenge. It doesn't have to be self castrated and killing the wife who done nothing wrong but love him to the very end.

[Ace High]

There are thousand of ways to revenge. It doesn't have to be self castrated and killing the wife who done nothing wrong but love him to the very end.

What are the alternatives given Lin Ping Zhi situation? He is surrounded with enemies with no allies. His master is the one who stole his family's secret martial arts manual and almost killed him. His enemies are way to powerful to be defeated even if he trains hard for a hundred years (due to his lack of talent).

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

In modern time in countries like US/Canada, YES. Back in the old days, hell no...

Doesn't stop you doing it.

[Trien Chieu]

What are the alternatives given Lin Ping Zhi situation? He is surrounded with enemies with no allies. His master is the one who stole his family's secret martial arts manual and almost killed him. His enemies are way to powerful to be defeated even if he trains hard for a hundred years (due to his lack of talent).

Well, after he becomes the son in law of YBQ, he would be able to learn martial art from Huashan more freely. If he is willing to train hard, he will able to revenge. What about all the wealth from the Lin family? After his parents pass away, where is all the wealth from escort agency? What about his relatives from his mother side? Why didn't he ask them to help him? Why didn't he ask Shaolin to help him? Wasn't Shaolin the leader of Jianghu who would help victims?

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

Well, after he becomes the son in law of YBQ, he would be able to learn martial art from Huashan more freely. If he is willing to train hard, he will able to revenge. What about all the wealth from the Lin family? After his parents pass away, where is all the wealth from escort agency? What about his relatives from his mother side? Why didn't he ask them to help him? Why didn't he ask Shaolin to help him? Wasn't Shaolin the leader of Jianghu who would help victims?

We have already discussed the impracticalities of relying solely on Mount Hua's arts and LPZ's talent for revenge so lets leave that dead horse.

As for using the family wealth, Qingcheng school wiped out all of their branches and looted all their wealth.

The Wang's although wealthy don't seem to be particularly powerful so would have been unlikely to have been much help against Qingcheng school. Even if they try to higher someone else it wouldn't work as only the smaller schools would work for money and the bigger ones would just snub them.

Appealing to Shaolin is not an option as YCH had the ready excuse of avenging his son and master. His actions can be seen as extreme but not out of line with wulin rules.

[Trien Chieu]

Actually its 13 provinces (sheng 省) and 2 capitals (jing 亰).

The 13 provinces were Fujian (福建), Guangdong (广东), Guangxi (广西), Guizhou (贵州), Henan (河南), Huguang (湖广), Jiangxi (江西), Shaanxi (陝西), Shandong (山东), Shanxi (山西), Sichuan (四川), Yunnan (云南), Zhejiang (浙江);

The 2 capitals are Northern Zhili (Beijing) & Southern Zhili (Nanjing).

The name Zhili (直隸) means “directly ruled” and indicates regions directly ruled by the Imperial Court. Zhili was first constituted during the Ming Dynasty when the capital of China was located at Nanjing along the Yangtze River. In 1403, the Ming Yongle Emperor relocated the capital to Beiping, which was subsequently renamed Beijing (literally, “Northern capital”). The region known as Northern Zhili was composed of parts of the modern provinces of Hebei, Henan, Shandong, and the administrative districts of Beijing and Tianjin. Conversely there was a region located around the “reserve capital” Nanjing known as Southern Zhili that included parts of what are today the provinces of Jiangsu, Anhui, and the administrative district of Shanghai.

Ming Dynasty was pretty small at that time. It's much smaller than modern China, Qing Dynasty and Yuan Dynasty.

We have already discussed the impracticalities of relying solely on Mount Hua's arts and LPZ's talent for revenge so lets leave that dead horse.

As for using the family wealth, Qingcheng school wiped out all of their branches and looted all their wealth.

The Wang's although wealthy don't seem to be particularly powerful so would have been unlikely to have been much help against Qingcheng school. Even if they try to higher someone else it wouldn't work as only the smaller schools would work for money and the bigger ones would just snub them.

Appealing to Shaolin is not an option as YCH had the ready excuse of avenging his son and master. His actions can be seen as extreme but not out of line with wulin rules.

Why did LPZ kill YCH son? If he did that then you can't really blame YCH for going after him. As for avenging for his master, what did the Lin family do to YCH master? If LPZ did not kill YCH son, I doubt he would go after LPZ entire family as there is no reason/excuse for him to do it.

If LPZ was enlighten, he would forget about revenge and move on in life. He either stay with the Wang family or stay in Huashan school. Cheung Mo Kei can forget about revenge, why can't he? After all, he killed their son first.

[Ace High]

Why did LPZ kill YCH son? If he did that then you can't really blame YCH for going after him. As for avenging for his master, what did the Lin family do to YCH master? If LPZ did not kill YCH son, I doubt he would go after LPZ entire family as there is no reason/excuse for him to do it.

Dude, read the novel. Its already translated in full. The answer you ask is in the first and second chapter, which was translated almost a decade ago.

If LPZ was enlighten, he would forget about revenge and move on in life. He either stay with the Wang family or stay in Huashan school. Cheung Mo Kei can forget about revenge, why can't he? After all, he killed their son first.

Because Lin Ping Zhi isn’t Zhang Wu Ji. They have different upbringing, different view on life, different situations. Walk ten thousand miles in Lin Ping Zhi’s shoes first.

There are blood feuds that’s been going on for generations. And feuds are not unique to Imperial China only, its exist almost everywhere in the world.

[Trien Chieu]

There are blood feuds that’s been going on for generations. And feuds are not unique to Imperial China only, its exist almost everywhere in the world.

In some ways, ancient society was so cool to read about but it would be deadly to live in those days.

[Trien Chieu]

In short, Lin Pingzi didn't need Pixie Sword to survive. Pixie Sword did NOTHING to preserve his life. Just the opposite, the disappearance of the shroud caused Yue Buqun's suspicion to fall on him so he had to walk extra lightly. But even then, Yue Buqun didn't do shit.

He castrated himself for power and vengeance. He deserves what he got.

Yeah, you are 100% correct. LPZ is an idiot.