Is Lin Ping Zhi the most tragic character in Jin Yong novel?

[shangster]

After re-watching State of Divinity, I really believe that out of all the Jin Yong novels, Lin Ping Zhi has to be the most tragic character of them all. He was born to wealthy parents, yet he is respectful and has a sense of justice. He lost everything, and later find trust in Huashan's master, Yue Buqun. Even his feeling for Yue Ling Shan is genuine and real.

It's pretty clear that as much as he hated and wanted revenge on Yu Cang Hai and the hunchback for killing his parents, it was Yue Buqun's betrayal that hurted him the most and drove him over the edge. It's easy to think that it was his family's martial art which changed his personality for the worse, but I really believe that Yue Buqun's betrayal turned him into the villain that he ultimately becomes.

I now understand why State of Divinity is such a popular novel within the wuxia community. I just love the way Jin Yong developed the characters; and Lin Ping Zhi is such a unique, yet tragic, character. An innocence, respectful young man who, though no fault of his own, swallowed his pride for the sake of revenge.

Does anyone else believe that Lin Ping Zhi's fate would be different had Yue Buqun not betrayed him? I really don't know the answer to this question at all. On the one hand, Lin Ping Zhi's character, while an all-around good guy, isn't as strong as that of Linhu Chong. That eventually, he would still chooses to learn his family's martial art regardless of Yue Buqun's betrayal. Linhu Chong has too much pride and strong morals and that he would rather choose death than to do what Lin Ping Zhi did towards the end of the novel. But on the other hand, even Linhu Chong never went through that Lin Ping Zhi went through -- twice.

[Virak Pheng]

I would agree with you about Lin Ping Zhi, but in the case of "one of the most tragic", not quite the most in all Jin Yong's yet!
Just looked back to DGSD, there're many tragic characters (regardless the fact that it's the most tragic Wuxia novel out there) that are very difficult to compare with Ling Ping Zhi, such as Murong family and Xiao Feng's dad!
But, yeah you got all the points about Lin Ping Zhi, great job!!!

[BlackRaven]

Nice analysis.

"Does anyone else believe that Lin Ping Zhi's fate would be different had Yue Buqun not betrayed him? I really don't know the answer to this question at all. On the one hand, Lin Ping Zhi's character, while an all-around good guy, isn't as strong as that of Linhu Chong. That eventually, he would still chooses to learn his family's martial art regardless of Yue Buqun's betrayal. Linhu Chong has too much pride and strong morals and that he would rather choose death than to do what Lin Ping Zhi did towards the end of the novel. But on the other hand, even Linhu Chong never went through that Lin Ping Zhi went through -- twice. "

IF Yue Buqun did not betray him, it means YBQ would not have stolen the monk garment with the Evil Resist Sword Art inscribed on it. Then of course LPZ would study it. I think LPZ would have killed Yu CangHai and Muo GaoFeng, then disappear from Jiang Hu to avoid marrying Yue Lingshan, so he isn't forced to spill the beans on the castration requirement. It's a secret that he will bring to his grave. One thing for sure, LPZ might not be so disillusioned about life.

[canhnhuoctran]

After re-watching State of Divinity, I really believe that out of all the Jin Yong novels, Lin Ping Zhi has to be the most tragic character of them all. He was born to wealthy parents, yet he is respectful and has a sense of justice. He lost everything, and later find trust in Huashan's master, Yue Buqun. Even his feeling for Yue Ling Shan is genuine and real.

It's pretty clear that as much as he hated and wanted revenge on Yu Cang Hai and the hunchback for killing his parents, it was Yue Buqun's betrayal that hurted him the most and drove him over the edge. It's easy to think that it was his family's martial art which changed his personality for the worse, but I really believe that Yue Buqun's betrayal turned him into the villain that he ultimately becomes.

I now understand why State of Divinity is such a popular novel within the wuxia community. I just love the way Jin Yong developed the characters; and Lin Ping Zhi is such a unique, yet tragic, character. An innocence, respectful young man who, though no fault of his own, swallowed his pride for the sake of revenge.

Does anyone else believe that Lin Ping Zhi's fate would be different had Yue Buqun not betrayed him? I really don't know the answer to this question at all. On the one hand, Lin Ping Zhi's character, while an all-around good guy, isn't as strong as that of Linhu Chong. That eventually, he would still chooses to learn his family's martial art regardless of Yue Buqun's betrayal. Linhu Chong has too much pride and strong morals and that he would rather choose death than to do what Lin Ping Zhi did towards the end of the novel. But on the other hand, even Linhu Chong never went through that Lin Ping Zhi went through -- twice.

Nice analysis!!! Though I think Qin Yong wrote his character a villain and not a tragic hero though. He was knee-deep in vengeance and though i sympathize with him, i won't agree to all the things he did to scheme his way to his goals without caring for any other people's lives. I'd be happy if he changes his way and has a better ending with YLS (as I can tell he loves her as well) but Qin Yong didn't let him So a semi-villain he is and not a tragic hero.

[xiaop]

I dont find Lin Ping Zhi this person to be particularly tragic as compared to other characters like Qiao Feng or You Tan Zhi.


Lin Ping Zhi no doubt had a sad story. But lets take a deeper and more objective look at it. Killing another off because of coveting the other person's skill or treasure is just TYPICAL of the pugilistic world is it not? It is just the same as having your 3 meals in the Jiang Hu !!

I'm sure there are tonnes more people massacred and plenty more of blood spilled due to the Nine Yin Manual, Dragon Sabre / Heaven Sword.

So what makes Lin Ping Zhi's so much of a sob story when this happens to him ?


What I do find tragic about Lin is perhaps what our friend Blackraven has posted in another thread, the ultimate fate of Lin Ping Zhi.

Lin certainly didnt deserve the punishment he suffered from Linghu Chong at the end of the novel. He wasnt given any chance of redemption at all, and sentenced to the death penalty on the spot.

It does make me feel that Linghu Chong is in fact a very uncompassionate and narrow minded person. He imprisoned Lin as a manner to enact his personal revenge for Yue's death.

[Ian Liew]

I think Ding Dian, for one, had a far more tragic life than Lin Pingzhi did.

[Ace High]

Lin certainly didnt deserve the punishment he suffered from Linghu Chong at the end of the novel. He wasnt given any chance of redemption at all, and sentenced to the death penalty on the spot.

It does make me feel that Linghu Chong is in fact a very uncompassionate and narrow minded person. He imprisoned Lin as a manner to enact his personal revenge for Yue's death.

LPZ didn’t deserve the punishment? Even though he plotted with ZLC and killed a lot of Five Mountains School’s members? He also tried to kill LHC out of pure jealousy when the latter did nothing to him. Furthermore, LHC did not even looking for LPZ to avenge YLS, instead it was LPZ who came looking for LHC. LHC also didn’t kill LPZ after he bested the latter in the cave, so being ‘sentenced to the death penalty on the spot’ was pretty much invalid. (These events are from Chapter 38)

Do you expect LPZ to get a VIP treatment from LHC after all the former had done? LHC could not let LPZ away scott free; after all he’d be a danger to himself and others.

[Trien Chieu]

LPZ could have a great life with YLS but too bad he blew it all.

[Ken Cheng]

LPZ could have a great life with YLS but too bad he blew it all.

That's what tragedy is: having choices, and making the worst one possible...often due to a deep character flaw.

[tape]

That's what tragedy is: having choices, and making the worst one possible...often due to a deep character flaw.

What choices did Lin Pingzi actually have? Once he joined the Huashan Sect, his fate was more or less sealed to be manipulated by Yue Buqun. Prior to that, he couldn't even really take the non-vengeance route like Zhang Wuji did even if he wanted to since people like Yu Canghai and Yue Buqun were secretly keeping tabs on him and he certainly lacked the ability to protect himself.

If had had chosen not to practice PiXie Swordplay, Yue Buqun would still have killed him sooner or later. His life was doomed to be terrible, but I suppose he made it a bit more terrible for himself by doing things like killing Yue Lingshan. At that point though, he was already blind, castrated, and probably a bit crazy so I never really felt he was despicable or anything like that.

[Trien Chieu]

What choices did Lin Pingzi actually have? Once he joined the Huashan Sect, his fate was more or less sealed to be manipulated by Yue Buqun. Prior to that, he couldn't even really take the non-vengeance route like Zhang Wuji did even if he wanted to since people like Yu Canghai and Yue Buqun were secretly keeping tabs on him and he certainly lacked the ability to protect himself.

If had had chosen not to practice PiXie Swordplay, Yue Buqun would still have killed him sooner or later. His life was doomed to be terrible, but I suppose he made it a bit more terrible for himself by doing things like killing Yue Lingshan. At that point though, he was already blind, castrated, and probably a bit crazy so I never really felt he was despicable or anything like that.

If he had chosen not to practice Pixie Swordplay, he would have a happily ever after life with YLS. Wasn't he able to marry YLS? If he wasn't castrated he would have a great life afterward. YBQ would eventually teach him all the martial art of Huashan to him. I blame Lin Yuantu for not teaching his descendant proper martial art to protect themselves. The 72 stands of Pixie Swordplay alone is pretty useless.

[tape]

Yue Buqun already tried to take his life before he practiced PiXie. The only reason he was able to live for so long was because he stuck by Yue Lingshan 24/7.It was obvious that Yue Buqun wouldn't have taught him anything and would have taken his life anytime the opportunity arose; I have no idea why you think he could have lived happily ever after.

[Doc Kwok]

Yue Buqun already tried to take his life before he practiced PiXie. The only reason he was able to live for so long was because he stuck by Yue Lingshan 24/7.It was obvious that Yue Buqun wouldn't have taught him anything and would have taken his life anytime the opportunity arose; I have no idea why you think he could have lived happily ever after.

Some warped TV adaptation perhaps? I remember the TVB 1984 adaptation had LPZ remorseful at YLS's death (though there, she impaled herself onto his sword) - the novel LPZ never showed a hint of repentance for his actions though, which makes me ultimately unsympathetic towards him.

LPZ couldn't have stuck with YLS for at least 8 hours out of 24 though - I wonder how he survived then? Sleeping together with the other disciples wouldn't work, since YBQ has already shown that he was not averse to murdering his own disciples to get at him.

If the story is interpreted as political allegory, then I would interpret LPZ as the powerless, oppressed civilian, who is helpless to stop those with power from pushing him around as they please. However, once he does manage to acquire power to fight back against his oppressors, he becomes rapidly drunk with power and turns out to be no better than his oppressors.

[xiaop]

Yue Buqun already tried to take his life before he practiced PiXie. The only reason he was able to live for so long was because he stuck by Yue Lingshan 24/7.It was obvious that Yue Buqun wouldn't have taught him anything and would have taken his life anytime the opportunity arose; I have no idea why you think he could have lived happily ever after.

And even if there was some form of guarantee that Yue Buqun wouldn't kill Lin Ping Zhi, do you think he will just sit idly by and watch his parents' death go unavenged?

Yu Cang Hai massacred his entire clan and Mu Gao Feng tortured his parents extensively.

There was already no happily ever after between Lin Ping Zhi and Yue Ling Shan from the start.

[xiaop]

LPZ didn’t deserve the punishment? Even though he plotted with ZLC and killed a lot of Five Mountains School’s members? He also tried to kill LHC out of pure jealousy when the latter did nothing to him. Furthermore, LHC did not even looking for LPZ to avenge YLS, instead it was LPZ who came looking for LHC. LHC also didn’t kill LPZ after he bested the latter in the cave, so being ‘sentenced to the death penalty on the spot’ was pretty much invalid. (These events are from Chapter 38)

Do you expect LPZ to get a VIP treatment from LHC after all the former had done? LHC could not let LPZ away scott free; after all he’d be a danger to himself and others.

Lin Ping Zhi is a character very much driven by circumstances. Given his background, anybody would have become extremely negative and distrusting towards others. And of course, we have to take note that after practising the Bixie Swordplay, it would completely change the character of the person, no matter how kind hearted this fellow originally was.

I am not saying Lin didnt deserve any punishment at all.

But why must the punishment be so harsh; to be imprisoned in the cell beneath the Mei Manor? This is already beyond punishment and close to the realm of torture.

Hes already blind , lost all his martial arts, castrated, and crippled.

He already dont pose any kind of threat to anyone.

What difference is it going to make if Linghu Chong were to isolate Lin Ping Zhi in some remote mountain / village hut or something?

For me I felt Lin's punishment was handed down without any consideration given to the mitigating factors of his circumstances.

Even a creep like Tian Bo Guang whose sins I personally feel way surpassed that of Lin Ping Zhi was given a chance of redemption and Lin wasnt offered any sympathy at all.

Thats what tragic about him, I feel.

[Ian Liew]

The difference is Tian Boguang still had principles and goodness which he could draw upon to be a good man, while Lin Pingzhi, at that point, no longer had any redeeming factors. While his circumstances were unfortunate, that man was nothing but a danger to himself and society. It's like pleading for leniency for a criminal because he is the sole bread-winner, was uneducated, was a first-time offender etc.. it may have affected the psychology of the criminal, but it does not absolve him of his wrongs.

[xiaop]

The difference is Tian Boguang still had principles and goodness which he could draw upon to be a good man, while Lin Pingzhi, at that point, no longer had any redeeming factors. While his circumstances were unfortunate, that man was nothing but a danger to himself and society. It's like pleading for leniency for a criminal because he is the sole bread-winner, was uneducated, was a first-time offender etc.. it may have affected the psychology of the criminal, but it does not absolve him of his wrongs.

Sorry but I fail to interpret the part on how Lin Ping Zhi could pose a threat to society given that hes already blind and crippled.

What kind of a danger could he bring about to anybody in his current state?

I cant think of any unless someone is willing to do his dirty work for him.


Sure, if some cold blooded murderer has no more redeeming factors, you could always consider putting him in an asylum rather than in prison.

Hes not getting out, but at least its humanatarian and therapeutic in some way.


Like I said, Lin Ping Zhi could be put in some remote mountain or village where he cannot harm anyone else. Why does it have to be so extreme to the point its a cell under the Mei Manor?

[tape]

Sorry but I fail to interpret the part on how Lin Ping Zhi could pose a threat to society given that hes already blind and crippled.

What kind of a danger could he bring about to anybody in his current state?

I cant think of any unless someone is willing to do his dirty work for him.


Sure, if some cold blooded murderer has no more redeeming factors, you could always consider putting him in an asylum rather than in prison.

Hes not getting out, but at least its humanatarian and therapeutic in some way.


Like I said, Lin Ping Zhi could be put in some remote mountain or village where he cannot harm anyone else. Why does it have to be so extreme to the point its a cell under the Mei Manor?

That's kind of true. When Yue Lingshan asked him not to kill Lin no matter what, I doubt she was thinking imprisoning him under a lake was what he would do. He should have just killed Lin.

[Doc Kwok]

Sorry but I fail to interpret the part on how Lin Ping Zhi could pose a threat to society given that hes already blind and crippled.

What kind of a danger could he bring about to anybody in his current state?

I cant think of any unless someone is willing to do his dirty work for him.


Sure, if some cold blooded murderer has no more redeeming factors, you could always consider putting him in an asylum rather than in prison.

Hes not getting out, but at least its humanatarian and therapeutic in some way.


Like I said, Lin Ping Zhi could be put in some remote mountain or village where he cannot harm anyone else. Why does it have to be so extreme to the point its a cell under the Mei Manor?

He still knows Pixie swordplay, even if he can't employ it himself, and the entire wulin knows it. If he puts out the word that he will teach it to the first to bring him LHC's head, then he will have an endless stream of patsies at his disposal. Alternatively, others may decide to simply kidnap and torture it out of him. The Qingcheng sect will also be looking for revenge.

In any case, LHC is under no obligation to be nice to him.

[Trien Chieu]

I agree that the Qingcheng sect and others are looking for him for revenge. However, I don't think anyone in wulin would be interested about Pixie Swordplay given what they have to sacrifice. Hell no.