...and other missed opportunities to showcase characters' martial arts.

[Ken Cheng]

In my previous thread, I lamented that Jin Yong never depicted Kiu Fung using the Dog Beating Stick Technique in DGSD. We know that Kiu Fung knew how to use this skill, but we never got to see him use it in the story.

What are your other most notable instances of wuxia characters being *known* to have practiced/mastered a certain martial art, but the audiences never get to see the character actually use that martial art?

[Mido-Ban]

both 9 yin and yang, we always see same techniques being used.
same with the 9 recluse stance, each tv adaptions always show same type of special effects,
they really should showcase all the stances.

same with the 18 subduing dragon palms, rest of Huang Yaoshi techniques. more of of QKDNY from chang wu ji. thats the only reason i like watching tvb adaptions, they try to showcase some other arts.

[yangguo_]

definitely 9 yin.

and also, didn't xie xun pass down some moves of 18 subduing dragon palms to zwj?

[pannonian]

The last few chapters of ROCH was the first time we see Southern Emperor's Yiyang Zhi in combat. Before that, we've heard of his reputation for 2 novels, but not until the end of the 2nd novel do we see him in action.

[Ken Cheng]

and also, didn't xie xun pass down some moves of 18 subduing dragon palms to zwj?

Only in the first edition of HSDS (which has been superseded twice). In that first edition, however, I believe that Cheung Mo Gei *did* use the Hong Lung 18 Palms (but not particularly well) on one occasion.

[Doc Kwok]

Another vote for 9 yin. It's quite ridiculous really, it was hyped to the heavens throughout the Condor trilogy, yet of all those with access to some form of it, they used it to magically 'get better' in some nebulous way, use its principles to modify the martial arts they already had, or use it like a bag-of-tricks to conveniently pull something out of in a sticky situation. Not once do we see someone use it as a standalone martial art!

Other candidates would be the martial arts that Shi Potian learnt from the Heroes' Island (he only uses it to rescue two falling women), and Di Yun's Heavenly Glow+blood sabre combo (only used it a few times against third rate fighters).

[PJ]

Another vote for 9 yin. It's quite ridiculous really, it was hyped to the heavens throughout the Condor trilogy, yet of all those with access to some form of it, they used it to magically 'get better' in some nebulous way, use its principles to modify the martial arts they already had, or use it like a bag-of-tricks to conveniently pull something out of in a sticky situation. Not once do we see someone use it as a standalone martial art!

Maybe magically getting better, improving the arts he already had, and getting out of sticky situations are what Huang Shang had in mind as he crafted this thing to overcome all his enemies

[Ken Cheng]

Another vote for 9 yin. It's quite ridiculous really, it was hyped to the heavens throughout the Condor trilogy, yet of all those with access to some form of it, they used it to magically 'get better' in some nebulous way, use its principles to modify the martial arts they already had, or use it like a bag-of-tricks to conveniently pull something out of in a sticky situation. Not once do we see someone use it as a standalone martial art!

Other candidates would be the martial arts that Shi Potian learnt from the Heroes' Island (he only uses it to rescue two falling women), and Di Yun's Heavenly Glow+blood sabre combo (only used it a few times against third rate fighters).

It's actually quite difficult to define precisely what the 9 Yum Jen Ging *is*, as a system of martial arts. Techniques such as Hong Lung 18 Palms, 1 Yeung Finger Technique, etc., had very clearly defined effects, but 9 Yum Jen Ging was sort of this Swiss Army/Boy Scout knife martial art that had a bit of everything, but no clearly defined technique. If one is a master of the 9 Yum Jen Ging, precisely what does one attack an enemy with? 9 Yum Claws? One of the myriad weapons techniques?

It almost seems as if 9 Yum Jen Ging was designed to supplement the user's existing martial arts rather than be used as a standalone system.

[PJ]

Since (I think) You Tanzhi no longer knows Tendon-Changing Classic (YJJ) in 3rd, and no one else was known to know it in 2nd ed, it may be that NO ONE in DGSD actually knows this highly touted MA. It's quite weird that no one in Shaolin knew it (Sweeper Monk aside as a possibility).

[pannonian]

Xiao Feng, dog beating stick technique, no dogs under heaven stance. The stance is supposed to send one's internal energy out, hitting multiple targets in the process. Would have been useful in Juxian manor.

Yang Guo could have used the stance against the Shi brothers' animals, but he found more amusement in swinging a tiger by its tail, and later just roaring them into submission.

[Doc Kwok]

It's actually quite difficult to define precisely what the 9 Yum Jen Ging *is*, as a system of martial arts. Techniques such as Hong Lung 18 Palms, 1 Yeung Finger Technique, etc., had very clearly defined effects, but 9 Yum Jen Ging was sort of this Swiss Army/Boy Scout knife martial art that had a bit of everything, but no clearly defined technique. If one is a master of the 9 Yum Jen Ging, precisely what does one attack an enemy with? 9 Yum Claws? One of the myriad weapons techniques?

It almost seems as if 9 Yum Jen Ging was designed to supplement the user's existing martial arts rather than be used as a standalone system.

In that case, how did Huang Shang, who had no previous experience of martial arts, fight? Maybe he used his profound knowledge of Taoist martial arts principles to pinpoint the opponents weaknesses, then randomly stick the nearest limb into it and let his superior inner power do the rest (like a certain sword art )...

[Ken Cheng]

In that case, how did Huang Shang, who had no previous experience of martial arts, fight? Maybe he used his profound knowledge of Taoist martial arts principles to pinpoint the opponents weaknesses, then randomly stick the nearest limb into it and let his superior inner power do the rest (like a certain sword art )...

One of the volumes of 9 Yum Jen Ging was loaded with the native techniques of Wong Seung's enemies, correct? Maybe that was the purpose for including those...because 9 Yum Jen Ging didn't include its own set of attack skills.

[CFT]

Aren't there at least 2 offensive skills documented in 9Yin? The 9Yin divine claws and the Heart Penetrating palms.

[Ken Cheng]

Aren't there at least 2 offensive skills documented in 9Yin? The 9Yin divine claws and the Heart Penetrating palms.

I think both were originally the skills of Wong Seung's enemies that were added to the 9 Yum Jen Ging.

[ChronoReverse]

Depends on the edition. But originally those two were some of the techniques that were "easier" in the manual. Considering how powerful they were already, you could imagine the caliber of the higher level techniques.

Across all editions, there is also an unnamed sword technique that GJ thought may be strong enough to compete with OYF's staff technique.

[pannonian]

One of the volumes of 9 Yum Jen Ging was loaded with the native techniques of Wong Seung's enemies, correct? Maybe that was the purpose for including those...because 9 Yum Jen Ging didn't include its own set of attack skills.

There was a claw technique that was either Huang Shang's version of the 9 yin claws, or else Zhou Zhiruo made the same mistake as Mei Chaofeng and Chen Xuanfeng in misinterpreting the meaning, in which case Huang Rong didn't do a very good job of epitomising the quick-learn edition of 9 yin. When the yellow dressed lady intervened to stop Zhou Zhiruo and the various happenings at Shaolin, the onlookers saw her demonstrate a claw technique that was evidently related to that used by ZZR but was also evidently different.

[tape]

Must be some whip techniques too, unless MCF and ZZR both randomly decided to use a whip.

The techniques in 9 Yin might not necessarily be that high though; the people he fought against were Ming cult members who won through sheer numbers and likely were no better than Guardian Lord level fighters. Their techniques (and their counters) could easily not be Great caliber level techniques. All the inner strength and healing stuff from 9 Yin is probably more impressive.

[ChronoReverse]

Yeah, HS was _already_ strong enough to beat any of the cult's fighters (or even 10) but he couldn't beat _all_ of them.

9 Yin lets him beat all of them without stopping. Despite being some decades older.

This is why I'm convinced that anyone who's not strong enough to overcome GJ in a hundred stances or so will eventually lose to GJ simply because of sheer exhaustion.

[Doc Kwok]

Must be some whip techniques too, unless MCF and ZZR both randomly decided to use a whip.

The techniques in 9 Yin might not necessarily be that high though; the people he fought against were Ming cult members who won through sheer numbers and likely were no better than Guardian Lord level fighters. Their techniques (and their counters) could easily not be Great caliber level techniques. All the inner strength and healing stuff from 9 Yin is probably more impressive.

The novel did not say that he had problems dealing with the Ming cult fighters - it is not stated how he managed to get away (did the Ming cult just let him leave according to the wulin rules concerning duels?), but he got out of that unscathed. It was the wulin members out for revenge later that overwhelmed him with sheer numbers.

[tape]

The novel did not say that he had problems dealing with the Ming cult fighters - it is not stated how he managed to get away (did the Ming cult just let him leave according to the wulin rules concerning duels?), but he got out of that unscathed. It was the wulin members out for revenge later that overwhelmed him with sheer numbers.

Oh, right. I'm still somewhat skeptical that the techniques themselves can be assumed to be that powerful since, like you said, the characters who learned it generally used it to improve their existing martial arts rather than learn one of the ones in the manual.

There are definitely some high level martial arts theories in there though, since Guo Jing was able to immediately spot theoretical flaws in Huang Yaoshi and Ouyang Feng and improve his comprehension immediately.