Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor's "father and son" relationship

[Ken Cheng]

Some questions and observations about Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor's "father and son" relationship in ROCH, such at it was.

1). Yeung Gor knew Yeung Hong was his biological father, and called West Poison Au Yeung Fung his foster father, but was Gwok Jing the father whom Yeung Gor *really* wanted? Did Yeung Gor ever wish that Gwok Jing could have been his dad?

2). Gwok Jing was not in fact Yeung Gor's father, but loved Yeung Gor like a son anyway (more so than some dads love their sons)...arguably more than he did his own biological offspring. At what point do you think Yeung Gor really understood and believed that Gwok Jing loved him like a son?

[pannonian]

Some questions and observations about Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor's "father and son" relationship in ROCH, such at it was.

1). Yeung Gor knew Yeung Hong was his biological father, and called West Poison Au Yeung Fung his foster father, but was Gwok Jing the father whom Yeung Gor *really* wanted? Did Yeung Gor ever wish that Gwok Jing could have been his dad?

2). Gwok Jing was not in fact Yeung Gor's father, but loved Yeung Gor like a son anyway (more so than some dads love their sons)...arguably more than he did his own biological offspring. At what point do you think Yeung Gor really understood and believed that Gwok Jing loved him like a son?

During the fight at the Mongol camp, after he'd tricked Guo Jing into not escaping as he could but instead returning to rescue him, and indeed telling Yang Guo to escape while he held the others off, Yang Guo reflected that his real father could not have treated him any better than Guo Jing did, and forgave/rejected anything that Guo Jing might have done in the past. Any further revelations would not have shaken Yang Guo's affection for Guo Jing.

Before that, but also before the suspicions built up, Yang Guo told Xiao Longnu that she was one of a select bunch of people who truly treated him well, and of those who were still alive, his godfather (Ouyang Feng) and uncle Guo were the only others. By the end of the novel, those three, plus Mu Nianci and Granny Sun, were probably still the highest in Yang Guo's affection.

[Ken Cheng]

I would've liked to see Gwok Jing formally adopt Yeung Gor as his son (it would have made many things easier, in retrospect). Whatever their official relationship with each other was, the two of them were essentially like father and son.

[BlackRaven]

Does this formal adoption entail changing his family name? If so, I am unsure Yang Guo would comply.

[Ken Cheng]

Does this formal adoption entail changing his family name? If so, I am unsure Yang Guo would comply.

In fiction, there's precedent for adopted children not taking the surnames of their adoptive parents. For example, Batman/Bruce Wayne adopted each of the boys who became his Robins, but Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, and Tim Drake all retained their original surnames even after Bruce had formally adopted them.

Moreover, if Yeung Gor were to adopt the "Gwok" surname, his name would be almost unpronounceable in some dialects of Chinese (it'd be a mouthful in Cantonese, at the very least).

[Ken Cheng]

Before that, but also before the suspicions built up, Yang Guo told Xiao Longnu that she was one of a select bunch of people who truly treated him well, and of those who were still alive, his godfather (Ouyang Feng) and uncle Guo were the only others. By the end of the novel, those three, plus Mu Nianci and Granny Sun, were probably still the highest in Yang Guo's affection.

At what point of ROCH did Yeung Gor say this to Little Dragon Girl (he said the same thing early on in ROCH '83, but oddly enough, it was to Yeh Lut Chai's sister Yeh Lut Yin, whom he barely knew at the time)? I imagine it must have been fairly early, when Little Dragon Girl, Au Yeung Fung, and Gwok Jing were the only three people he (effectively) knew, because if not, he's giving the short shrift to such people as Luk Mo Seung, Ching Ying, Yeun Nan Ping, East Heretic Wong Yerk See, North Beggar Hung 7 Gung, Chow Bak Tung, Beggar's Union Elder Lo Yau Gerk, Chu Tze Lau, Fisherman, Mo 3 Tung, Gung Sheun Luk Ngok, South Emperor 1 Deng, and much later, Gwok Seung. I'm guessing Yeung Gor had met *none* of these people yet at the point when he said that, because all those people I named treated him quite well and were quite friendly with him.

Despite his own occasional claims to the contrary, Yeung Gor had *many* friends.

[devilz91]

Does this formal adoption entail changing his family name? If so, I am unsure Yang Guo would comply.

Then his name will become Guo Guo and he can hang around his Gu Gu. Epic.

[Ken Cheng]

Then his name will become Guo Guo and he can hang around his Gu Gu. Epic.

Yeah..."Guo Guo" would sound ridiculous in Mandarin and "Gwok Gor" is barely pronounceable in Cantonese (you can say it, but you'll probably trip over it half the time), and goodness knows how it might come out in various other Chinese dialects. I'd say that even if Yeung Gor were to accept being adopted by Gwok Jing, he should request being allowed to retain the "Yeung" surname.

[pannonian]

At what point of ROCH did Yeung Gor say this to Little Dragon Girl (he said the same thing early on in ROCH '83, but oddly enough, it was to Yeh Lut Chai's sister Yeh Lut Yin, whom he barely knew at the time)? I imagine hit must have been fairly early, when Little Dragon Girl, Au Yeung Fung, and Gwok Jing were the only three people he (effectively) knew, because if not, he's giving the short shrift to such people as Luk Mo Seung, Ching Ying, Yeun Nan Ping, East Heretic Wong Yerk See, North Beggar Hung 7 Gung, Chow Bak Tung, Beggar's Union Elder Lo Yau Gerk, Chu Tze Lau, Fisherman, Mo 3 Tung, Gung Sheun Luk Ngok, South Emperor 1 Deng, and much later, Gwok Seung. I'm guessing Yeung Gor had met *none* of these people yet at the point when he said that, because all those people I named treated him quite well and were quite friendly with him.

Despite his own occasional claims to the contrary, Yeung Gor had *many* friends.

He said it after Granny Sun's death and their return to the Ancient Tomb. After entombing Granny Sun, they returned to the owner's room, where the ice bed was. Xiao Longnu used a rope, and she told Yang Guo to sleep on the bed. He couldn't because the bed was too cold, and after he jumped off a couple of times Xiao Longnu warned him she'd thrash him if he jumped off again. He couldn't stand it, quietly slipped off the bed, and XLN immediately thrashed him. However, fearing she was hurting him too much, she became softer after not very long, and by the end it was just a formality. YG noted this and was probably reminded of the ultra-strict treatment with no allowance for humanity that he'd got from the likes of Huang Rong and Zhao Zhijing (whatever punishments he'd got from Guo Jing were always softened by Guo Jing's concern for him, but for Huang Rong insisting on enforcing them to the end). Yang Guo understood discipline and that those who enforced it may love him, but he had no respect for those who insisted on discipline as a means of spite.

[Ken Cheng]

He said it after Granny Sun's death and their return to the Ancient Tomb.

Yeah...it makes sense at that point. If he were *still* saying that towards the end of ROCH, it'd be ridiculous considering how many great friends (and Great friends) he had at that point. It'd be complete BS if he'd said it later in ROCH, but at the point that he did, OK.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

I always thought the idea of 'adoption' was to provide childless/couples without male issues someone to continue the family name, hence in Cantonese it literate translate to 'pass to'.

In YG and GJ case this was not necessary as GJ already had a son and YG was needed to continue the Yang family name.

[yangguo_]

I agree, GJ wouldn't want YG to take his name because he always talked about the Yang family name.