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Thread: Could CMG have given Seung Yu Chun some of his years back by teaching him 9 Yeung?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Could CMG have given Seung Yu Chun some of his years back by teaching him 9 Yeung?

    When Seung Yu Chun was injured by a Mongolian warrior, the young Cheung Mo Gei saved Seung's life by using the meager knowledge of acupuncture he had gained from reading Dr. Wu Ching Ngau's medical texts. Although Cheung saved Seung from an immediate death, Cheung's amateurish and errant use of acupuncture caused Seung to lose forty years off of his eighty-year life expectancy. Indeed, Seung Yu Chun died of illness at forty, just as Wu Ching Ngau had prognosticated.

    I wonder, however: could Cheung Mo Gei have given Seung Yu Chun at least some of his years back by teaching him the 9 Yeung Jen Ging? Training in advanced inner power techniques sometimes seems to produce the side effect of extending longevity (hence, the reason that most of the Greats lived far beyond the average life expectancy of people in pre-modern China). Perhaps training in the 9 Yeung Jen Ging might have enabled Seung Yu Chun to prolong his life for a decade, if not his original full eighty years?

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Guess it depends on what ZWJ did to shorten SYC's life.

    If he just weakened his body thus making him more susceptible to illness then practising 9 Yang would have helped. To what extent is debatable.

    If you used up SYC life force to cure his immediate injury then no. I don't know of any martial arts that can replace life force.

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    This is just a hunch, but I believe that at best, he may have given him a few years back, but not the whole 40 years. He was able to heal The Bat King's extremely weird affliction, even removing the thirst for blood, so perhaps he could help SYC a bit. Maybe 3 or 5 years?

    Like Mandred said, unless we gain a better understanding of how exactly SYC lost 40 years life expectancy in the first place, we can only offer wild speculation. I think ZWJ's rough acupuncture greatly damaged SYC's delicate nervous system. Acupuncture is intimately linked to the nervous system right?

    In wuxia, it seems like like damage that results from messing around with pressure points, usually through abusive martial arts study, is incurable. During the DGSD era, there was a Shaolin monk that mastered over 20 Shaolin consummate skills. He became paralyzed and even Sweeper Monk could not cure him. It's funny how Sweeper Monk did not mention the YJJ as a possible remedy to that paralyzed monk. Could this mean that SM has not studied YJJ himself? Or that YJJ's tendon healing reputation is overrated?

    However, Xiao Yao may succeed where Shaolin fails. I believe that Xu Zhu (!) could have restored more life expectancy to SYC than ZWJ could. XZ performed EYE SURGERY and restored sight to Ah Zhi. Xu Zhu, the rustic monk in his early 20s that did not follow the decade long rigorous study than modern day surgeons do. His feat is just mind boggling. It gives the impression that Xiao Yao's medical books have a method for curing nearly any ailments.

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    ZWJ had prescribed some herbs for Chang Yuchun, but when ZWJ raised the topic later he just laughed it off. If he could not even stick with periodically taking some medicine, there is no hope whatsoever of learning 9 Yang to any meaningful degree.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    ZWJ had prescribed some herbs for Chang Yuchun, but when ZWJ raised the topic later he just laughed it off. If he could not even stick with periodically taking some medicine, there is no hope whatsoever of learning 9 Yang to any meaningful degree.
    If taking a few herbs was all that Seung Yu Chun needed to do to regain at least a few years of his lifespan, I wonder why he declined to do so. Were forty good years (as opposed to eighty not entirely good years) enough for him, as he had said to Cheung Mo Gei and Wu Ching Ngau?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    If taking a few herbs was all that Seung Yu Chun needed to do to regain at least a few years of his lifespan, I wonder why he declined to do so. Were forty good years (as opposed to eighty not entirely good years) enough for him, as he had said to Cheung Mo Gei and Wu Ching Ngau?
    He didn't like being dictated to. He considered Zhang Wuji's concerns about his health a bit bossy, although IIRC he didn't resent ZWJ nearly as much as Xu Da and the other military leaders did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    He didn't like being dictated to. He considered Zhang Wuji's concerns about his health a bit bossy, although IIRC he didn't resent ZWJ nearly as much as Xu Da and the other military leaders did.
    I always thought that Seung Yu Chun and Chui Dat were really fond of Cheung Mo Gei. Even Chu Yeun Cheung seemed to like Cheung Mo Gei on a personal level, though Chu would later conspire to remove Cheung from power to fulfill his own ambitions.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I always thought that Seung Yu Chun and Chui Dat were really fond of Cheung Mo Gei. Even Chu Yeun Cheung seemed to like Cheung Mo Gei on a personal level, though Chu would later conspire to remove Cheung from power to fulfill his own ambitions.
    Probably had something to do with SYC knowing ZWJ as a child. I got the impression he treated ZWJ like a nephew, so making it difficult to take advice from him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    Probably had something to do with SYC knowing ZWJ as a child. I got the impression he treated ZWJ like a nephew, so making it difficult to take advice from him.
    Seung Yu Chun and Chui Dat (both of whom are also historical figures) are two of my favorite minor characters in HSDS and wuxia in general. They seem to be really cool dudes, and they were bros with Cheung Mo Gei.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Seung Yu Chun and Chui Dat (both of whom are also historical figures) are two of my favorite minor characters in HSDS and wuxia in general. They seem to be really cool dudes, and they were bros with Cheung Mo Gei.
    As fictional characters they were pretty decent people, honourable, loyal and patriotic. But they were a bit gullible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I always thought that Seung Yu Chun and Chui Dat were really fond of Cheung Mo Gei. Even Chu Yeun Cheung seemed to like Cheung Mo Gei on a personal level, though Chu would later conspire to remove Cheung from power to fulfill his own ambitions.
    Adaptations show the Ming Cult bandits making friends with the teenage Zhang Wuji. They don't show the Ming Cult commanders bellyaching at Jiaozhu Zhang Wuji imposing his rigid morality on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    Adaptations show the Ming Cult bandits making friends with the teenage Zhang Wuji. They don't show the Ming Cult commanders bellyaching at Jiaozhu Zhang Wuji imposing his rigid morality on them.
    I don't recall Chang Yuchun or Xu Da chafing under Zhang Wuji in the novel. On the other hand, Zhu Yuanzhang showed his true colours fairly early on in the third edition (in earlier editions, it happens only right at the end).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    If taking a few herbs was all that Seung Yu Chun needed to do to regain at least a few years of his lifespan, I wonder why he declined to do so. Were forty good years (as opposed to eighty not entirely good years) enough for him, as he had said to Cheung Mo Gei and Wu Ching Ngau?
    The actor they had playing him in HSDS '00 portrayed it fairly well imho; he was just too much of a man's man to remember to take some herbs everyday in order to preserve his life for a few measly years. Generals like him probably believe that by caring about one's own life, you risk shortening it since you live on the battlefield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    As fictional characters they were pretty decent people, honourable, loyal and patriotic. But they were a bit gullible.
    They were probably what the Ming cult needed at the time though. Gullible people also radiate trust, and that's important to recruit soldiers and have your men willing to die for you. A bunch of scheming Zhu Yuanzhangs would wind up colliding with each other.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    They were probably what the Ming cult needed at the time though. Gullible people also radiate trust, and that's important to recruit soldiers and have your men willing to die for you. A bunch of scheming Zhu Yuanzhangs would wind up colliding with each other.
    Guess you're right. But it's generally scheming people like ZYZ who win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    I don't recall Chang Yuchun or Xu Da chafing under Zhang Wuji in the novel. On the other hand, Zhu Yuanzhang showed his true colours fairly early on in the third edition (in earlier editions, it happens only right at the end).
    Chang Yuchun felt that Zhang Wuji's concern over his health was a bit over-fussy, at the time of their second meeting. At the end, Zhu Yuanzhang coaxes Xu Da and other miliary leaders into moaning about the style of Zhang Wuji's leadership, causing the eavesdropping ZWJ to conclude that he was no longer wanted as leader.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    Chang Yuchun felt that Zhang Wuji's concern over his health was a bit over-fussy, at the time of their second meeting. At the end, Zhu Yuanzhang coaxes Xu Da and other miliary leaders into moaning about the style of Zhang Wuji's leadership, causing the eavesdropping ZWJ to conclude that he was no longer wanted as leader.
    I'm pretty sure what happened was that Zhu Yuanzhang was talking about that guy Han (something) but he phrased his words carefully knowing Wuji would eavesdrop and mistake them for talking about him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    I'm pretty sure what happened was that Zhu Yuanzhang was talking about that guy Han (something) but he phrased his words carefully knowing Wuji would eavesdrop and mistake them for talking about him.
    Ugh, I'll have to re-read that then. The end of HSDS isn't one of my favourite reads, with probably the weakest points of JY's writing crammed into a small space.

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    I do suppose that one simple and logical reason that Seung Yu Chun didn't want further medical treatment from Cheung Mo Gei was that he didn't trust the kid's skills. Yes, Cheung Mo Gei did save Seung's life, but his errant skills also cost Seung forty more years of potential life. Seung was probably wary that CMG's medical skills were unreliable and didn't want to lose what little time he had left to another half-baked treatment plan!

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